Well, my last post got quite reaction
(see here).
All credit to Dominick for his time and his thoughts. His take on what’s wrong with poker these
days is getting plenty of positive and some negative feedback, and I’m just
thrilled with the response. It would be
an exaggeration to say the post has gone “viral” but it I did set a record for
pageviews on Friday (by over 50%) and I want to thank everyone who linked to it
or tweeted about it.
In the post, I basically gave Dominick the floor and didn’t inject my own opinion (with one notable exception, which I’ll get to in a moment). This was not a debate or even two guys just spitballing. The floor belonged to Dom and I didn’t want to get in the way. You folks see my idiot opinions all the time, this was devoted to an insider’s eyeview. I do have a few thoughts of my own to add to the discussion this time.
In the post, I basically gave Dominick the floor and didn’t inject my own opinion (with one notable exception, which I’ll get to in a moment). This was not a debate or even two guys just spitballing. The floor belonged to Dom and I didn’t want to get in the way. You folks see my idiot opinions all the time, this was devoted to an insider’s eyeview. I do have a few thoughts of my own to add to the discussion this time.
For more reaction than just in my own
comments section, you can go to Dom’s FB page (which I believe is open to the
public) here. Also Poker Grump
linked to it and basically said he agreed with everything Dominick said. Then, just was I was starting to write this,
I see that Grange has done a longer post commenting on what Dom said, and you
should all check it out here.
Grange makes a couple of really good
points. One (also mentioned by Dom) is
that it is absurd that poker players are sitting at the tables watching movies
and paying scant attention to poker.
Now, to be fair, in the past I’ve actually seen players read books at
the table, also not paying attention to the game. We need to get rid of that. It doesn’t help the game, and frankly, it’s
damn rude. However, here’s something I
don’t get. A lot of the players doing
this are the locals who are presumably making money playing poker. How?
Isn’t paying attention to the game one of the key things we’re all
taught when we open our first poker book?
Learn how the how players play, to the best of your ability. Who are the nits, who are the calling
stations, who are the maniacs. Who will
only bet when they have the nuts? Who
will bluff at every opportunity? Who
c-bets every flop if they raise pre and who only bets the flop if it hits them
or has a big pocket pair? That
information is crucial to being a successful poker player and I don’t see how you
can learn that watching 50 Shades of Grey on your iPad.
But that leads into the other
point. I guess the people who are
watching movies and/or listening to music with noise-cancelling headphones aren’t
making money from winning poker, they are playing the promotions game. And that was a point that both Dominick and
Grange made—promotions that encourage people to just sit in a poker room, buy
into a game, and hardly ever play a hand just so they can accumulate hours to
get some compensation for playing a lot of hours in a room are not helping. Maybe
they’ll wake up with Aces and Kings and make a raise once in a while. Otherwise, they just fold. But they’re accumulating hours.
One of the things Dominick mentioned
briefly in our talk but didn’t make it into my post was that TI had a promotion
sometime back where people would get money for playing X number of hours in a
room for Y period of time. Just flat out
got cash for playing. Promos like that,
or freerolls where entry is earned for a certain number of hours played
encourage locals to come into a room and play like nits (maybe they are nits
anyway, whatever). In the short run, it may increase traffic into a poker
room. In the long run, I think it’s not
good for the room and bad for poker in general.
The biggest, busiest rooms in Vegas
can get away with not having promos because of their stature and also their
client base—the people who stay in their hotels. But smaller rooms are probably always going
to have promos and promo drops. Nothing
wrong with that. I think though that the
kind of promos matters, as alluded to above.
The promos should encourage players to play poker. High hand bonuses do just that. You need to put money into the pot and play
to hit quads or a straight flush. The
cash drawings I talk about at MGM also encourage play. People play more suited cards than they might
otherwise play to try to make a flush (I’m guilty of that as well). And they chase flushes more because of that
promo. And they call rivers with weak
flushes (or flushes where a full house is very likely) because of the
promo. Good for the game—although if you
get your set or your straight run down by a flush that was only made because
someone wanted a drawing ticket, you might not agree that one time.
Another point of debate is whether or
ESPN is good or bad for the game. I can’t
really comment on that….by the time I got into poker, ESPN was already heavily
concentrating on NLH and that is the game that got me interested in poker. I personally am not into the non-hold’em
games. But who knows, if I was watching
when they heavily covered Stud or HORSE (or whatever), maybe I’d be dying to
play in those mixed games that spring up in Vegas on occasion and that I almost
always avoid.
But I love that the discussion has
started and maybe this discussion will lead to some useful insight and helpful
changes.
Dom mentioned the big change in this
year’s WSOP, so let’s talk about the biggest deal in poker every year. I like the change to pay more players in each
of the bracelet events (15% instead of 10%).
More players getting paid I think will encourage more players playing—this
year and the future. I already did a
post suggested that the min cash be higher than it is (here),
but honestly, I don’t see how you can do that and add 50% more players to the
payouts. I’m ok with that for the WSOP. I think with the price of the buy-ins and the
aura of the Series, paying more people is probably better than giving the min
cashers more money. I’d still like to
see what I suggested for smaller regular tournaments ($100 or more buy in).
The other big news for the WSOP this
year is “The Colossus.” You’ve probably
all heard of this by now. Four starting
flights, $5MM guarantee, $565 buy-in. It’s
kind of irresistible and I expect I’ll be playing it. A much better value than the Casino Employees
Event I played in last year (see here).
Will probably have the most entrants in
the history of live poker. The starting
stack if only $5K and the levels on the first day are only 40 minutes (60 on
Day 2 and beyond) but still, it seems like a reasonable value and should be
fun.
As I am in the processing of entering
the details of the WSOP for PokerAtlas, I did notice something else a little
different from the last year. The
starting stacks for each event are generally bigger. In the past, the starting stack was usually 3X
the buy-in. A $1K event had a $3K
starting stack. Now it is usually five
times. So those $1K events start you
with $5K in chips. However, I did
discover something important that I want to make everyone aware of that I don’t
believe has been pointed out (or perhaps I just missed it).
In the past, the starting blinds were
usually 25/25. Now those same events
start the blinds at 25/50. So they are not increasing the starting
stacks by 80 big blinds as you might think.
They are actually reducing the starting stacks by 20
big blinds! You know how it is…when they
give you something on side, they take away something on the other side. Anyway, instead of starting with 120 big
blinds, you now only start with 100.
This is on most “normal” events—obviously for some events it’s
completely different. But I think
everyone needs to realize that up front.
OK, that’s all for now. I actually interrupted the post I’m working
on now because I realized I couldn’t finish it before I wanted to get a new
post up. So I figured this would be a
good follow up to my previous post.
Hopefully I can get that other post completed in time for Tuesday
evening.
In the meantime, I’m probably gonna
watch some of the Academy Award show tonight, because Neil Patrick Harris is
hosting. And let’s face it, although he
has a solid show biz career and getting to host his first Oscars is quite an
honor, his biggest claim to fame will always be that he starred in one of my
blog posts (see here). That’s bigger than the Oscars, right? So I want to see if, even if he is the world’s
cheapest tipper, he can do a good job handing out awards. Hmm…maybe he will only give the winners half
an Oscar?
Glad this discussion is continuing. However, it seems to me one critical question is being skirted. Why do some poker rooms consistently run local-friendly promos? Specifically freerolls and cash-back deals?
ReplyDeleteShort-sightedness would be my guess. They do get people in, increase the number of games, increase the drop. And they are willing to do that hoping that it won't keep the tourists away--or the locals who actually want to play poker. But I think inevitably they make the games so bad that it eventually it will keep the people who actually want to play poker away.
DeleteAnother thought, once you start them and that's your base, it's very difficult to wean off of them.....the nits you attracted will leave, and the people who left because of them won't come back, you've likely lost them for good. So once started.....you're almost stuck with them.
If some rooms didn't run those promotions, they wouldn't have any games. Nice catch on the starting stack/blinds change Rob. That's something that most people usually seem to miss. You'll hear that this tournament is great because it has X amount of starting chips. Fine, but what are blinds at each level, and how long does each level last??? ;) And thanks for linking to my new blog - I have a feeling that it's going to generate views for you at a faster pace than its older sibling (who paved the way)... :)
DeleteOnce they start, they're hard to get rid of but I think maybe there are other promos they could have tried that would get people in there and if they liked it there, they'd come back.
DeleteYeah, the starting blinds and how fast they progress is important. I actually noticed the different starting blinds before I noticed the starting stacks had been improved.
Let's suppose you're an out-of-town recreational player wanting to have "fun" at the poker table. Which of the following opponents is most likely to stop you having fun? The guy across the table folding most of his hands watching a movie, or the weird Brit in the cowboy hat to your immediate left with whom you have been discussing the NFL draft and who, over the last hour, seems to have mysteriously upped his raising rate whenever you limp into a pot?
ReplyDeleteThe perfect tourist wouldn't even notice that the Brit cowboy has upped his raising rate!
DeleteBut you make a valid point. And I actually think a lot of tourists at the poker tables in Vegas would prefer to lose money at a table full of friendly people than win a little at a table full of players who never say a word. But it is a fine line.
In disturbing news, for some reason, your comments aren't being emailed to me to approve. I find them in the pending section but I should get an email alerting me to the fact that I have a comment pending and I'm not getting them when you leave a comment. Also, when i approve the comment I should get an email that a comment posted and I'm not getting that either.
The only other person I have this issue with is Tony.
I'm not comfortable having something in common with Tony.
Deleteif vook ever decides to post here, ill bet u have that issue with vook too
DeleteVook has commented here in the past and no issue, but it's been awhile and it's only recently that I haven't been getting emails about your comments, Tony.
DeleteFYI....for whatever reason, I did get an email on this most recent comment, Kat!
The power of positive thinking! Or I fixed something.
DeleteYeah, that might have done it.
DeleteHMMMMMMM. WTW is that pic and the Oscars??? what happen to this blog. but anyway. hope u r getting a futon bcuz i need a place to crash in 2016 when my RAIDUHHHHHHHHS move to Carson. hopefully u live near a Taco Bell/Little Ceasar's and a MJ dispensary. 2016 is enuff time 4 u to get yr Red card bcuz i think u suffer from PTSD and sheeeeeeeeeit.also, would help if u live near a Ralph's
ReplyDeleteIf the Raiders do move here, that will be the impetus I need to move out of this city. I don;'t want to associate with Raiders fans (I don't mean you specifically, I mean Raiders fans in general. I remember what they did to property values when they were here last time.
Deletewhere would u move to??????? Oakland?? Bakersfield??? Yuba City??
DeleteTampa. I hear the poker's really good there. Plus, they have a great NFL franchise.
Deleteand no state income tax too. plus Ybor City/Indian Rocks Beach is nice and i heard flights to Biloxi r cheaper than Vegas. i wonder if flights to New Orleans r cheaper than flights to Vegas??????
DeleteCome on to Tampa, we'd love to have you!
DeleteLOL....thanks, MOJO....I'll take it under advisement.
DeleteCome to Hong Kong, Rob. 15% tax rate, zero capital gains tax, and poker across the water in Macau!
DeleteFor the record I do not have a cowboy hat. But I do have a Raiders one (cross -post)
ReplyDeleteduly noted, redcoat. has property value declined in yr neighborhood now that u have a Raiders hat??
DeleteBen, I believe Kat was referring to himself....not you.
DeleteDidn't think he meant me for 1 min. Also didn't know Kat was from Gods Country.
ReplyDeleteHouses in my area have gone up 9.5% in the last 12 months. AFAIK not hat related, but you never know.
it is the hat ,redcoat.
Delete@Ben.....Yes, although Kat has lived on this side of the Atlantic for sometime, he was originally from across the pond. Not sure how long he's been working the cowboy hat.
Delete