Last Saturday, after a whole lot of
deliberation, I ended up heading down to the Bike to play in a tournament.
But don’t worry sports fans. This
post is not one of those lengthy tournament summaries, filled with “boring hand
histories.” That will have to wait for
next time. This is just about making the
decision to play there. An entire post
for that, you ask? Dear reader, do you
not know who you’re dealing with by now?
The Bike is currently running a big
tournament series. It started with the
WSOP circuit, and now has the “Mega Millions” tournament going. They’ve actually been running this particular
tournament for years, and until this year, I’ve managed to be fairly oblivious
to it. This year I heard about it and
looked into it.
It’s unlike any tournament I’ve ever
played in before. For one thing, there’s
a shitload of starting flights. I think
something like 30, give-or-take. And not
all the starting flights have the same entry fee. And also, you can buy directly into Day 2 if
you like. That would only cost you
$4,300. But hey, you start with 250K in
chips.
The Bike has been the pioneer in
tournaments with multiple price points. They
are the original home of “Quantum” tournaments which can have three differently
priced entry points on a single day. See
here for my only experience with them.
They don’t refer to this as a “Quantum”
tournament but it sure is similar.
Although most of the starting flights are $160, on the weekends they also
have $550 starting flights.
There are two $160 starting flights a
day for 11 days. I think the $550 starting flights only run on the two
weekends. What’s the difference? The $160’s start with 5K in chips, the $550’s
start with 25K. However, the $160’s have
an optional $100 add-on for another 8K in chips. Otherwise the structures are the same.
The other difference is the
qualification to advance to day 2. Both
versions begin payouts on day 1. The
last 10% of each flight (at both price points) get money. In the case of the $550’s, all those who get
paid also advance to day 2. For the
$160’s, they play down to 5% and that last 5% advance to day 2.
If you advance to day 2, they give you
$1K—apparently right then and there. You
don’t have to come back on day 2 to get the money. I assumed the payouts for the players who
finished between 5% & 10% would be pretty small. So, in deciding whether or
not to try the tournament—and if so, which flavor, as it were—I had a bunch of
considerations.
Did I mention that the tournament has
a guaranteed prize pool of $1,000,000?
Although, that doesn’t quite seem like “Mega Millions” to me. It
seems more like one million to me. Maybe
the “Mega” refers to the large number of starting flights, not how many
millions of dollars they are giving away?
To win the tournament, you have to
play four days. And the last three days
would all be mid-week. But if I was
playing on the last day, it would surely be worth it. But I really like the fact that they begin
payouts on day 1, so I know the return trip, in mid-week, isn’t a total waste
of time (although I later found out that is not necessarily true).
I first noticed the $160 version and
that really appealed to me. I always
complain that there are never any good tournaments to play in here in L.A. (at
least for me). I guess I’m spoiled by
the Aria $125 daily. The value in that tournament is great. That’s really the
standard for me, and there’s nothing even remotely close to it on a regular
basis in L.A. The $160 version seemed
like a pretty good approximation, with the potential for a much bigger payout
if I ran super good. Of course, when I
saw the note about the add-on, I knew it was really going to be a $260
buy-in. It wouldn’t make any sense to
not do the add-on. You get more than
1-1/2 times the starting stack for less than 2/3’s of the original buy-in. And
besides, only with the add-on do you get what I consider a decent amount of
starting chips. I mean $160 for a 5K
start is actually pretty bad. But $260
for a 13K stack is decent.
So it was really a $260 buy-in
tournament I was considering playing.
Then I found out about the $550 version.
Well, first of all, I really wasn’t looking to pay that much for a
tournament. It’s getting close enough to
summer to start thinking about squirreling away some funds for some of the big
buy-in events I want to play in Vegas. I
figure I want to play in a couple of pricey (for me) events then, can’t spend
that money before then. I’ve only played
a $500+ tournament a very few times, and I didn’t want to play one here when
there was a lower price option available.
But was it a good option? I wondered if the set-up put those that
bought in for $160 at too much of a disadvantage versus the $550 players. I wasn’t sure, but I decided that if you look
at it as each flight being a separate tournament (which it kind of is), then a
potential $1K for a $260 buy-in was pretty good. I like that four-figure payout for a day’s
work. Actually, I just finally did the
math and if everyone at the lower price point takes the add-on, the average
chip stack taken to day 2 will actually be more for the lower price than the
higher price. But it’s impossible to
know for sure since you don’t know how many add-ons there will be. If no one took the add-on, the lower buy-ins
would have much smaller average stacks than the $550’s.
The other thing was that with either
buy-in, your payout for day 1 if you make it to day 2 is $1K. So that sounds pretty good for a $260 buy-in,
not so good for a $550 buy-in. Of
course, you only had to be in the top 10% to advance, not the top 5% as with
the $160 buy-in.
One other consideration I had was the
levels. The day 1’s all have 25-minute
levels. Odd level time, right? Of course
I would have preferred 30-minute levels, and for that price, it should
definitely be 30-minutes. But at least
25-minutes was better than 20-minutes. I
don’t think I would have spent much time even considering playing if it had
been 20-minutes. So I looked over the structure, you can find it here. It is really player-friendly, very
slow progression of the levels, lots of levels you don’t usually see. BTW, the
levels on Day 2 are 50-minutes, and on Day’s 3 & 4 they’re 60-minutes. I figured the 25-minute levels were acceptable
to me because of the good structure.
The first flights were on the Friday
before the Saturday I was considering playing.
So I was able to see what the pay scale would really look like before
playing. All I really needed to see was
what the pay outs were for the players in the second 5%--the ones who got paid
but didn’t advance. And it was pretty
bad. There were two tiers. The top half got $400 and the bottom half got
$300. So since it was gonna be a $260
tournament for me, I could “cash” and get what would have to be considered the “min”
of all min-cashes…a $40 profit.
But I already knew it was going to be
low and it didn’t faze me. I had my eye
on the $1K and a ticket to day 2. As I
said, I was considering it more of a one day tournament for $1K. Actually, it was more like a satellite for a
tournament that started on day 2. A
satellite to a $4,300 tournament, in fact.
Except that in a satellite, you’re
only playing for an entry into to a bigger tournament (although occasionally
there’s a token cash payment). This
time, you’d playing for the entry and a significant cash payout.
Now I don’t usually play satellites.
You may think the reason is silly. But I
figure that even the best poker players in the world don’t cash in every
tournament they play. I don’t know what
a good percentage is for cashing, but I have the figure 25% floating in my
head, dunno where I got that. But it
sounds right. Anyway, in case you
haven’t noticed, I am not one of the best poker players in the world. I figure I would have to run/play good twice
in a row (once in the satellite, once in the main tourney) to make it
worthwhile to play a satellite. That’s
asking a lot. I’m not sure if I could do
it in back-to-back tournaments. If I do
well enough to win an entry in a satellite, I’d rather have the cash to show
for it than an entry (even if I was gonna turn around and take the winnings and
buy my way into a tournament). I dunno,
maybe just a weird mental thing I have.
But this tournament…this “satellite”
would be different. I would be getting
some tangible cash if I scored…and the entry to the bigger tournament (aka day
2 of this tournament). I liked that.
Of course, one difference between this
tournament and a real satellite would be that everyone who wins a seat to day 2
would have a different starting stack, whereas a true satellite would get you
an entry with the same starting stack as everyone else.
So I did play in it on Saturday. And
while there, I heard something that made this event more like a satellite than
I realized. Of course, I only heard this
from another player so I can’t say it is 100% accurate. But it sounds right. Apparently, even though the money bubble
bursts on day 1, they don’t keep making pay outs right away on day 2.
My thought initially was, if I made it
day 2, whether they gave me the $1K right then or I had to go back for it, I’d
make more money right away just being there for day 2. So if I lasted just a few hands into day 2,
I’d end up making some amount over $1K (total) for the tournament. But I don’t think that’s how it works. I heard the guy say you have to be in the
final 30% of the total players they get for day 2 in order to get any more
money (that’s what I heard, but if they were going to do it this way, I dunno
why it would be as much as 30%, that seems high. But that’s what I heard).
Anyway, this has been the introduction
to my summary of my experience playing the Mega Millions at the Bike. I haven’t
started writing the actual tournament summary so I don’t know whether it will
be one or two parts. We’ll see. Hopefully I’ll post it soon. (Edited to add: Good news! It's posted, it's only one part and you can find it here, and now there's more on the subject, the final postscript can be found here.
But it’s impossible to know for sure since you don’t know how many add-ons there will be.
ReplyDeleteI've found that virtually all the players take the add-on. That means you absolutely have to as well.
Thanks, MOJO. I always intended to take the add-on. I said that in the post, I guess I didn't make that clear enough.
DeleteMy point in mentioning this was that the number of add-ons taken would affect what the average stack would be coming out of the Day 1 and into day 2. So, if NO ONE took the add-on, the average stack size for those who went to day 2 would be 100K. If EVERYONE took it, the average stack size at the end of day 1 would be 260K.
When I was writing for Ante-up, I covered the Bike a lot. I was told that it's pretty consistent that 80-85% of players take the add-on. Doing the math, to me it looks like 93.75% taking the addon in the $160 would be the breakeven to have the same average stack as those playing the $550. I think another thing to take into consideration is that the $550 players who advance also only get $1k.
DeleteThanks, Dave. In fact (spoiler alert), I remember seeing that they had 195 add-ons and there were 225 players, so about 86%.
DeleteI did take that into account, about the $550's. that $1K seems like it's not enough for that price.
Are you still planning on playing tomorrow? If so, good luck. I hope you make it to Day 2 and as always, I hope your health is improving.
O played the facebook event, which was only $125 after the add-on. Almost every series at commerce and bike have one. The mega is tough because your top 10% isnt very high due to so many flights.
ReplyDeleteThanks edgie. The number of flights doesn't really affect the average chip stack, just the number of players you have to mess with if you make it to day 2. Of course, the sheer numbers mean that some people will be well below the average and need a miracle to last long into day 2.
DeleteRight, but your top 10% number will suffer if demand dips due to excessive supply of flights.
DeleteNot following you. But I will say if there are a lot of players playing multiple flights and advancing more than once, it will bring up the average chip stack on Day 2.
DeleteSounds like a fun tourney with decent value.
ReplyDeleteSo are we going to see you on LiveAtTheBike after you bink this cool milly prize pool? ;P
The poker here in St. Louis is pretty good imo. Two of the four poker rooms have recently had an upgrade so that should mean something right? We have daily tournaments at Hollywood, and Heartland Poker comes around usually twice a year (next week actually) to Ameristar. Hoping to get into their 100k GTD for $350...maybe even satellite in for $85 like I did last time.
Personally I love satellites as I don't have the bankroll to buy into the $1650 main event. Single table $75 satellites pay $200 in 'tourney cash' that you can use to buy into any other event, such as a 1 in 5 ticket to the main (which I bubbled for $1200 last year). I have also heard several times of people winning multiple seats to the main, and just selling the extras for cash.
Keep up the good work!
-TDiddlez
Thanks TDiddlez, I suppose I should reconsider my position on satellites. But the other thing with them...they're all basically turbos. I really don't like that.
DeleteIf I do make a major cash, playing at Live at the Bike is not anywhere near the top of my list to do with with money, but I do appreciate the thought.
Yes I absolutely understand that. The bigger the buyin the better the structure though. The $75 STS is 2k chips, 25/25 blinds, and 10 minute levels. Unless u catch some cards quick, it's a shovefest by level 3. 10k, 50/100, and 20 min levels is a fine structure though for $200.(also the norm for the daily tourneys around here)
DeleteFun related story though...(years ago)I lost a big pot UTG and had less than a blind left. All in blind next hand, caught a straight. Then caught two more the next two hands in a row and was chip leader within an orbit. Went on to get the tourney cash. This was early in my poker days and will always stick with me.
-TDiddlez (I use too many parentheses)
Great story! Thanks for sharing.
DeleteI don't know what the %ITM for a good live tournament player is either, but 25% seems high. If we define good by ROI, then the %ITM would be even lower.
ReplyDeleteFound this thru Google, a very interesting and sobering read.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.google.ca/amp/deadspin.com/why-its-hard-for-poker-pros-to-make-a-living-playing-l-1526098295/amp
Wow, great (and depressing) article, thanks for that find, Pokerdogg.
DeleteHave you been reading the blog long enough to remember the great female poker player I met a few years back...Alicia? I eventually wrote a piece on her for an online magazine. You can find that here:
http://robvegaspoker.blogspot.com/2013/07/Life-of-a-low-stakes-female-poker-player.html
She is probably the best poker player I've ever met. Honest. OK, I guess I've met Chris Moneymaker so perhaps I mean "got friendly with." Anyway, she is really good and is especially great at tournaments, and also prefers to play them than cash. But if you read my article, you will see that when she moved to Vegas to make a living at poker, she had to play mostly cash, because good as she was was, she couldn't make a living just playing tournaments. And she had a much bigger edge at tournaments than at cash.
I dunno where I heard the "25%" number. I think maybe someone said that in a comment on one of my blog posts.
Some more on this topic
ReplyDeletehttps://www.pokerschoolonline.com/blogs/TheLangolier/MTT-ITM
Great research. Shows how difficult it is to score in successive tournaments. Of course, if you're running hot....
DeleteThe more important question: do the cocktail waitresses there take your diet soda before you have finished it?
ReplyDeleteI'll take your smart ass question seriously.
DeleteAt the Bike, the cocktail waitresses don't serve the soft drinks. There used to be porters to do that, but due to minimum wage increases in the state, they fired all the porters a few years ago. Now you have to flag down a food server to get a soda or coffee.
The porters being gone means pretty much NO ONE comes by and takes empty or near empty glasses away.
The easiest thing for me to do was just get water from the water cooler myself during the tournament.