This post
will prove there is much to be learned from that old proverb, “Be careful what
you wish for. You may get it.”
This story
takes place the very next night. By then
I had already figured out how to make sure Abe made it onto the blog, but even
if that hadn’t been the case, what happened on this night guaranteed that Abe
would become immortalized in these pages.
For the
second straight night, Abe and I were at the same table. Although we’d played at the same table a few
times before, including the night before, we had never really gotten into any
significant hands together. On this
night, I hadn’t played a lot of hands when I looked down at pocket Aces in late
position. This was my second night in
town and the first time I’d been dealt pocket rockets since arriving. I watched the action to see how many limpers
would be in front of me when Abe raised in front of me, to $15.
I made it $45
and it folded back to Abe. He thought
for a good long while. Finally, he
folded. Even from just playing with me a
few times, he would probably know that I’m not three-betting many hands, but
knowing that he reads my blog, I wondered if he might have actually folded a
really big hand. I mean, was he good enough to fold the dreaded pocket kings? I don’t think he’d normally fold KK but maybe
against me? Had he read enough blog
posts to limit my range enough to where folding KK was a good play? I wondered.
A few orbits
later, with a little more than my original starting stack of $200 in front of
me, I looked down at the aforementioned dreaded hand. It was the first time this visit that I had
pocket Kings. So of course, before it
got to me, Abe raised to $12.
Grrr. This was going to be only the second time all
night I’d three-bet, and once again I was three-betting against Abe’s
raise. But what could I do? Despite my pocketkingsaphobia, I haven’t
started just snap-folding them.
So I raised
to $36, three times his bet, just like when I had the Aces. It folded back to him and he took a long time
to think about it again. That was
good. At least I could be pretty sure he
didn’t have pocket Aces. He wouldn’t
have thought long about it if he had.
But this
time, finally, he called. It was just
the two of us to see the flop, which was Jack-7-3, rainbow. Pretty good flop for my dreaded hand, right? Other than the Jack being a King, I couldn’t
ask for much more.
The pot was
around $70 so I bet $60, about 1/3 of my stack.
Abe thought about it for a bit and then slid his entire stack forward! He had me covered. And as he bet, he said to me, from across the
table, “I know what books you read, Rob.”
OK, that was
a reference to the Ed Miller book he had lent me on the last day of my previous
Vegas visit. I mentioned it in the post
I linked to above where I introduced Abe.
But my first reaction—in my head, mind you—to his comment was, “Forget
about books you know I’ve read—you’ve read my blog. You read my blog. You know exactly how I play. You can put me on a very, very narrow range
here."
Shit. My first thought was the infamous hand I had
against Poker Grump last year, around Xmas time. My version of the story was called “How the
Grump Stole Christmas” (see here). It was a hand against Grump where he
semi-bluffed me off a hand where I had—of course—the very same dreaded pocket
Kings. In the first post he himself did
about the hand (here), Grump explained how
he used his knowledge of my game that he learned from reading my blog to
exploit my weaknesses. In essence, through
my blog, I had given Grump an instruction manual as to how to best play against
me. One of the posts he used against me
was based on one of his own old posts, so it really stuck in his head.
As Yogi Berra
might have said, it was déjà vu all over again, at least in my mind. I couldn’t just act here as if Abe was a
normal, solid opponent. I had to think
about how Abe was using his knowledge from reading my blog to take advantage of
me the way Grump had.
So I thought,
Abe must know how narrow my three-betting range is, especially against a solid
player like himself. If he’d been
reading long enough—and carefully enough—he’d know that I would be unlikely to
three-bet against him with Ace-King. At
least in a cash game. I usually only
three-bet with Ace-King and pairs less than Queens against really aggressive
players who raise preflop a lot. That
isn’t Abe. I actually discussed the
first time I could remember three-betting with AK in a cash game in this post here and it was against a guy who raised
all the time and loved to show off the fact that he was frequently raising with
garbage.
If Abe
remembered that, he wouldn’t think I was just making a continuation bet with
overcards there. And I couldn’t imagine
him putting me on a pocket pair lower than Jacks. So, if he thought his hand was good enough to
play for stacks there, he couldn’t have just a pair of Jacks. He must be ahead of pocket Queens, or Kings
or Aces, right? That was my
thought. And with no good draws on the
board, what hand was beating mine?
Pocket
Jacks.
He could have
a smaller set, but I didn’t think he’d both raise and call my re-raise with 7-7
or 3-3.
But J-J?
It made
perfect sense. That was his hesitation
preflop. He knew I had a bigger pocket
pair than his Jacks, and called my three-bet hoping to hit his set.
Which he did.
That was all
I could think of at first. It made perfect
sense. It seemed right.
So I had to
fold, right? I can’t risk my stack
hoping to hit a two-outer.
But wait, I
kept thinking (thankfully!). I had just
bet 1/3 of my stack, and now the pot was big.
You can’t bet 1/3 of your stack and then fold. I mean, I know I read that somewhere.
Oh yeah, I
remember where. In the Ed Miller book Abe had
just lent me. Yeah, that’s
right, in the very book he had just lent me, it talks specifically about
that. Not that I didn’t already know the
concept, but I’m sure I’ve violated that “rule” in the past, based on other,
not-so-good poker books I’ve read. The
first book I read that was devoted exclusively to NL cash games talked about
never risking your stack (if it was of significant size) with just top pair or
an over pair. I’ve probably made some
terrible laydowns following that advice (and maybe some good ones, too).
So there I
was, having gone beyond the “commitment threshold” that Miller talks about,
knowing—yes knowing—that I was drawing to a two-outer.
But wait a
minute. I had just heard Abe tell me
that he knows what books I read, meaning the book that was telling me that I can’t
fold there. Why would Abe say that when
he bet? Well, duh, obviously because he wanted
me to call! He was reminding me about
the book, basically telling me, “You know you can’t fold, Rob.”
It made
perfect sense. He has my
Queens/Kings/Aces beat with his set of Jacks, and wants me to stack off to him.
So now for sure
I have to fold.
But
wait. Remember Grump. Maybe there was another level to this. He knew I had to call there, based on what
I’d already bet. He was reminding me of
that with his comment, making me think even more certainly that he wanted a
call because he was ahead. So, maybe he was just saying that to convince me he
was ahead, so I would fold the best hand?
I was
starting to get a headache.
I actually
starting playing back old blogposts in my mind, trying to recall everything I
said that he might be using there, the way Grump had, and then I wondered if he
had read a lot of my old posts, the ones I published before he started reading
my blog.
Every time I
processed it all in my mind, I came up with the same conclusion. He had a set of Jacks and was daring me to
call.
There were
two other elements that played into this.
One was the
hand I had, my Kryptonite hand. Pocket
Kings. And in fact, in the Grump hand,
he actually hoped that I had KK as it would play into my “pre-existing belief
system.” Well, here I was again with
that dreaded hand, the hand that has been so bad to me so many times
before. And if there was one thing I
could be sure that Abe knew about from the blog, it was my history with pocket
Kings. Was he exploiting that as Grump
had? Did he assume I had KK and knew it
would be harder for me to call with them than with Aces or maybe even Queens?
And since I
did have the dreaded hand, was I predisposed to folding them anyway when I met
this kind of resistance? Did the fact
that it was Kings make me think it was more likely that I was beat than if I
had Queens or Aces? Yeah, probably.
The other
issue was the dealer, Michelle. Michelle
is the dealer who never pushes me a pot.
At least that’s the running gag we have (see here). She even once referred to herself as the
“Robert-Killer.” I keep a mental tally of how many pots she “owes” me (counting
down from 100. So at least on some
level, that fact that she was dealing probably helped convince me just a little
bit more that I couldn’t win this pot.
With all that
against me, I folded, right?
Not quite. Despite all the reasons to fold, I decided
that I just couldn’t fold my overpair there when I had put 1/3 of my stack in
the pot (on that street, that is….all told I had put in almost half of the
stack I started the hand with by now).
It was strictly a numbers game.
Forget about how many blogposts Abe had read, or which ones, or what he
was trying to tell me with his comment about the book. It just didn’t make sense to fold. So, after tanking for what seemed like an
eternity, I did what I would have done instantly if the same action had
unfolded against a player who I didn’t know read my blog, and said, “Call.”
I have no
idea what the next two cards were, but they didn’t look significant. Michelle asked us to show our hands and Abe
flipped over pocket Jacks, just as I thought.
At least
that’s what it looked like from the other side of the table. I saw one black Jack for sure, and the other
black card looked like another Jack. It
was definitely a face card. Since I was
expecting pocket Jacks, that’s what I saw.
I fumbled to
grab my hole cards. I hadn’t decided
whether to show them or not. I was sure
that Abe had put me on exactly pocket Kings anyway, was I gonna give him the
courtesy of showing him my losing hand?
Just then, I
heard Michelle say, “Pair of Jacks.”
“Set of
Jacks,” I thought. Just as I thought.
Wait, wait,
what?
Did she say
“Pair of Jacks” Pair of Jacks? I
actually stood up because Abe’s exposed cards were over on the other side of
the table, and I needed a better look. I
think I dropped my hole cards (face down) at this point.
He had two
black face cards alright. But only one
of them was a Jack. The other was a
King. Good thing they both weren’t Jacks
because they were both spades.
I said to
Michelle, in disbelief, “Pair of Jacks?”
“Yes, pair of
Jacks.” I believe Michelle, having seen
me play a zillion times, was sure I could beat Jacks and was just waiting for
me to show the winning hand.
I was still
fumbling with my cards and I think I dropped them yet again. At this point, Abe said, “Oh come on, you’re
not going to slow roll me now, are you?”
I’m afraid I
was doing just that, totally accidentally, of course.
I finally
managed to get those dreaded Kings face up in front of me. I then put out my stack so Michelle could
count it. It was $122 or so. She got the money from Abe and pushed a big
pot to me. I said, “79!” which I
believed was the right countdown of pots she owed me. And I gave her a big tip.
Abe was
laughing and pissed at the same time.
“Why did it
take you so long to call there? You put
in 1/3 your stack, you can’t fold. I’m
going to revoke your poker license.”
And then he
said, “I can’t believe you slow rolled me.
You slow rolled the nicest guy in the poker room.”
I used to
think I was the nicest guy in that poker room, but I think he’s right. He is
nicer.
I apologized
for the slow roll and explained that it was totally accidental. I said I thought he had pocket Jacks and
that’s what I thought I saw when he first showed.
I also
mentioned that I had would have a long story to tell him about why it took me
so long to call.
And then I
said, “Well, you definitely made it onto the spreadsheet now!”
It was the
weirdest feeling I ever had winning a bit pot. Oh, I was ok winning a big pot
from my friend. That’s poker. It’s just that I was kind of
embarrassed. In hindsight, it looked
like I was the worst poker player in the world (almost folding). I felt like explaining my entire thought
process right there at the table to everyone.
You know, all about my blog and how the fact that Abe reads the blog
made me think about the hand four extra levels.
And there was
Abe, getting what little revenge he could, ribbing me about almost folding in
that situation.
As I was
stacking my chips, one or two hands later, I got Ace-Queen and raised. One caller, an older gentleman who had about
$100-$120 in front of him. The flop was
Queen high and he checked/called my bet.
A second Queen on the turn and he shoved! Of course I snapped called. From the other side of the table, Abe yelled,
“Oh, him
you snap call! You snap call him but me,
you take a half an hour to decide!”
I just
laughed. The old guy had had Queen-10
and lost to my better kicker. “I knew
you had a Queen, I just didn’t know if your kicker was better than mine,” he
said. I stopped myself from saying, “I
did raise preflop sir, do you think I’d do that with Queen-9 or less?” It was another nice pot and this was turning
into a very profitable session.
I was dying
to explain everything to Abe, and also get his explanation of how he played the
hand. I almost suggested we take a break
so we could discuss it. No point in not
telling him; I knew by now he was going to read about it right here soon
enough.
But I didn’t
do that. Meanwhile, he was playing with
his phone and came over to me to show me some calculations he had done on a
poker odds calculator program. He showed
me that, on the flop, based on the range he put me on, he had over 50% equity
in the hand. Interesting.
The range he
put me on was pocket Jacks or better, Ace-King & Ace-Queen. That’s too big a range, I was lucky he hadn’t
read enough of my blog posts! Since he
had two spades he a back-door flush draw in addition to top pair. Note: when I tried using the same program to
check it myself, I came up with much lower equity for him, so one of us made a
mistake.
Later, as I
was starting to think about leaving, he raised to $15 and I had pocket 9’s. Hmm….since I knew he thinks I don’t three-bet
anything less than JJ, should I take advantage of that and re-raise there? Nah, I didn’t really consider that. I called, as did two others. The flop was really low, something like
5-4-2. Abe checked, as did one other
player, so I bet out $40 into a $60 pot.
The next guy called and this woman check-raised to $110. This woman is a regular in the room even tho
she lives in the Midwest. All night she
had been slowplaying pocket Aces and collecting big pots with them. She never raised preflop with them. She also had flopped a straight against me
with 8-7 and was pissed that I didn’t bet so she could check-raise.
I was sure
she had either caught a straight or was slowplaying Aces again. Maybe this time she only had Kings or
Queens? I’d never seen her check-raise
on a bluff. I folded, as did the guy
behind me, who showed his hand, pocket Jacks.
Abe shouted out, “What did you have, Rob, pocket 9’s?”
Shit. How the hell did he know that? I wanted to yell back, “Yes, so how the hell
did you know that and yet you didn’t know I had pocket Kings before?” Of course I didn’t say that. But he might have caught something in my
reaction because he teased me about having pocket 9’s there several times. I said I’d tell him later and he said, “You
had pocket 9’s there, didn’t you?”
About ready
to call it a night, I got Ace-Queen and raised to $8. Abe was one of two or three callers. The flop came Ace-3-3. I bet it and he was the only caller. We both checked the turn. On the river, he led out with a shove. He was short stacked, it was about
$50-$60. I really couldn’t put him on
much. I didn’t think he’d be slowplaying
a 3 that way. So I called. He showed his hand face up and said, “You’re
good.” He had a busted flush draw.
I suppose seeing
how close I came to folding my Kings made him think I was susceptible to a
bluff on the river there. Not quite,
Abe, not quite.
He left
immediately and I only played a few more hands.
I had a nice session but it felt a little weird that I made most of my
money off Abe.
The next day
I used my comps to take Abe out to dinner so we could discuss the big
hand. I knew I shouldn’t apologize for
taking his money, but I felt I owed him an explanation of why I looked so lame
in doing it. I didn’t want to wait until
he read it here. Besides, I wanted to
hear his side of it.
But his side
was mostly that he hadn’t read enough of my blog posts to narrow my range more
than he did. He did tell me that in the
first hand, when he folded to the Aces I three-bet with, he had pocket 9’s. Maybe that’s why he guessed I had pocket 9’s
hours later. And it was just a
guess. I suppose he might have said
Jacks if the guy next to me hadn’t shown Jacks.
A few days
later, he told me that Michelle had been given him a hard time about the
hand. “How could you go all in against
Robert? He’d already bet $60. He only bets the nuts!”
Hmm, I have
too tight an image, methinks.
Even though I
won the big hand of the night, and a couple of other big pots, I couldn’t help
wonder if it was not a good idea to play against readers of my blog. It was very stressful. I think the big hand may have taken a year
off my life.
As for Abe,
he got his wish, an entry on my spreadsheet, and the starring role in this blog
post. It cost him over $200 though. I wonder if he thinks it was worth it?
Next time tell him to call you Boob Rob, it's a lot cheaper way to make the blog. Well done Rob and nice to see you turned it around at the poker table.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Neo.
DeleteYou know, if a guy called me "Boob Rob" I don't think it would have made the blog.
It had to be a woman...a classic "woman said."
But yeah, that would have been a lot cheaper for Abe.
Great post as usual Rob. Showing a bit of class taking Abe out as well ! Well played Sir.
ReplyDeleteThanks very much mrben, appreciate it.
DeleteAs for the class taking Abe to dinner, well, as I mentioned, it was on my poker comps, so it didn't cost me anything--more importantly, it didn't cost me any of the money that I won from him the night before!
Actually,. he has plenty of comps too, and I suppose if we keep playing at the same table, it's inevitable that one day, he'll return the favor and take all my money, and then it'll be his turn to use his comps.
Rob,
ReplyDeleteUnless you have a very specific read on your opponent, you can never, ever, ever....ever...lay down KK on that flop for two reasons:
1. As you said, you had 1/3 of your stack in there with the 2nd best hand in Hold Them Poker on a non Ace flop. This alone dictates you go with the hand.
2. You are a nit....and people who play with you won't take long to figure that out. They will use any opportunity to run you off the best hand. You can't allow that to happen....or the Bullies will be lining up for blocks around.
Let's assume he had JJ and look at the math preflop. He made it $12 and you made it $36...so he has to call $24 when the pot is $48. He is getting 2-1 on a 7-1 shot! Implied odds will compensate for that somewhat (if he hits his J he gets your stack in most cases...but he is only going to do that 1 in 8 tries)...so you created bad odds for him to call...job well done. You created a situation where your opponent is making a mistake calling.
The rest is easy. Snap call and win the money 7 out of 8 times.
Stop being so damn nitty or people are going to test you constantly!
Thanks bill, but I did point out in the post that, if it was pretty much any other player I was up against, I would have indeed snap-called there. But I did have a "read" on this player--I knew he read my blog. That made me think he was putting me on a much more accurate range for my hands than he did.
DeleteCouple of thoughts popped to mind here.
ReplyDelete1. Start 3-betting suited aces in position, either against players who know you or 2 hours into a session. It'll make a great blog post.
2. You played this hand correctly for the reasons you and bill give, but I want to be pedantic about your statement of Ed's rule. I think a better statement is that if you put in > 1/3 your stack and then fold, you made a mistake somewhere in the hand. The mistake isn't always the fold, although in this case it would have been.
Thanks, Kat.
DeleteI like the idea of the 3 betting suited Aces. I do start trying to take advantage of my tight image when I've been at a table for awhile. That's sometimes gotten me some nice, small steals. But other times I meet resistance from the one new player at the table who hasn't seen me play tight for the past two hours.
You are right about Miller's rule and he does explain that in his book. It goes into his whole theme of "planning your hand." If making the $60 bet on the flop was correct there, it was a foregone conclusion that I was ready to get the rest of my money in. (but my post was all about why it wasn't a foregone conclusion in this specific case)
Of course, sometimes another card can change the plan, right? Suppose Abe had just called the $60 and the turn card was another Jack (or the third or even fourth card of a suit, on a different flop). Would calling his lead out shove on the turn been the right play?
Another thing I'm thinking is, Abe assumed I would have played it the same way with either AK or AQ. Surely a lot of players three-bet with those hands, and I MIGHT too against some players. If that's what I had, would I still have been willing to make the standard c-bet, knowing that I was committing my stick with just overcards? Hmm.
Right, like nearly everything in poker the real skill is understanding the exceptions to the rules. I think that's what makes the game interesting. Exceptions here include sick board run-outs and c-betting as a bluff. I had a hand last night where I was trapping with AA, calling flop and turn bets in position. When the high flop card paired on the end combined with a fairly reliable tell from villain I abandoned ship despite committing 40% effective.
DeleteUgh. But that's always the danger of slowplaying Aces.
DeleteHere's what I find most interesting about that hand: His thinking seems to have been not much deeper than "I have top pair, Rob might have missed with AK or AQ, so I'll shove." On that level, he made the classic mistake of putting out a raise that will only get called if he is beat. I guess his comment about the book was his hope that you would call needing to hit one of just a few outs.
ReplyDeleteIn theory, he COULD have been doing some interesting, creative, dastardly mind games, involving what he knew about your play, what you would think he knew about your play, what Miller's advice would be, a speech hinting at what Miller's advice would be, and, finally, whether the true meaning of that speech was "you have to call here, which is good for me," or "I want you to think that I want a call here, so that you'll fold."
But as far as I can tell from the post here, none of that deeper, interesting stuff was actually going on--except inside your own head! He wasn't leveling you; you were leveling yourself, and almost did it to the point of folding a hand that was 90+% to win.
Moral of the story: Giving an opponent too much credit for craftiness and deceptive play can be just as hazardous as giving him too little.
Thanks, Grump.
DeleteI definitely was over thinking there, based on the circumstances I described.
As for Abe, perhaps I didn't emphasize it enough in the post, but he really felt he a lot of equity there. He showed me the calculations the hand simulator made indicating he had over 50% equity on the flop against what he perceived my range to be. I think he made a slight error on the calculator, because when I used the same program to duplicate, he had a lot less equity (but still more than 1/3).
But that doesn't matter, since he wasn't using the calculator during the hand. Based on the math he was doing in his hand, giving me a wider range that I actually had, he really did think he had a lot of equity there, plus of course some fold equity.
Your "moral" is a good one. I overthought it because I knew he was a blog reader--and because of what YOU did to me back in December.
Poker fans:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt5xAETL47Y