Monday, October 28, 2019

Have I Forgotten Tournament Strategy?

As I mentioned before, I played just one tournament in Vegas during my July visit.  That was the Wynn on Sunday. On Friday and Sunday (but, alas, not Saturday), they have $200 tournament at noon, 15K starting stack, 30-minute levels and it even has a $10K guarantee. Big blind ante, of course.  I had never played a tournament at Wynn before, but from my observations, it appeared that this Friday and Sunday tourney there was now getting a bigger crowd than Aria's similar tournament had.  Plus Wynn had the $10K guarantee and Aria had no guarantee.  So I figured I'd give it a shot.

It's a good tournament, good structure for the price.  I'll be more than happy to play it again if I get the chance.  That said, (spoiler warning) I didn't come close to cashing.  I'm not going to do a complete recap of my experience.  Basically I just want to discuss one thing that came up during my run, based on a play I made and a comment I received for that play.

My table was kind of crazy.  Not the play, just the cards.  In the first few levels there were an awful lot of bad beats and bust-outs.  I mean ten-minutes into the tournament two players got it all in on the turn.  The flop had been Queen-Jack-x, and the turn had been another Queen.  One guy had pocket Jacks and the other guy had Queen-Jack!  Boat over boat in the first level.  The guy who won that hand later lost most of his chips in another boat over boat situation, this time he was on the wrong end of it.  Another time a guy with 7-4 in the big blind took out a guy who had a boat with three 4's on the board.

The craziest hand was perhaps when a short stack shoved from the big blind.  There had been a limper, and the small blind completed.  The big blind explained after the hand that he figured he had enough chips to get the two limpers to fold.  But it turned out the first limper had pocket 10's and the small blind inexplicably completed with pocket Queens.  So they both called the shove.  The big blind was embarrassed to turn over Queen-3 off.  But he wasn't too embarrassed to take the triple up when he used that 3 to complete a wheel on the river.  He couldn't believe his good fortune and also couldn't believe the guy with Queens just limped in from the small blind.  He said, "I was just trying to steal it.  If he had raised, as he should have, I'd have folded of course."

Well, the hand I want to discuss was on level 5.  The blinds were 400/200/400.  I had approx 16K.  With Queen-10 of spades, I opened to $500.  There was a call then a guy shoved his last $1,800.  I called and the other guy called.  He had me covered, in fact this was the guy who had gotten a double up in the boat over boat situation from level 1.  He was a fairly aggressive player which is why I didn't re-raise.  Of course I was worried about a re-raise from him, but I thought if he only called my initial raise that was unlikely.

The flop was Queen high, one spade.  I bet 2K and the guy said, "Why?"  Huh?  "Why are you giving him protection?"  He folded, saying, "I hope you have a monster."  OK, so I guess what he was saying was that in a tournament situation, it was in both of our interests for the guy to bust out and we'd both have one less player to compete against.  That is basic tournament strategy, and certainly in the latter stages of a tournament in a multi-way pot, you often see the players in the side pot check it down so that either one of them can bust out the short stack.

I never said a word, but for a second I was wondering if I had made a major gaffe.  Had it been so long since I played a tournament that I forgot basic tournament strategy?  It bothered me.

Anyway, the short stack had King-8 off.  Not sure why he felt compelled to shove with that, he was not one of the blinds.  The turn card was a second spade, so when the King of spades hit the river, his pair of Kings was no good against my flush.

Of course I kept thinking about the guy's comment.  The more I thought about it, the more I thought he was wrong.  What he was referring to was a late-in-the-tournament strategy, when you are near the money (or in the money) and you really want to see those player bust.  Here we were still early, registration was still open so I'm not sure what one guy busting during registration gets us.  I mean he could have re-entered himself (I don't believe he did).  My thought was that at this point in the tournament, I'm really trying to accumulate chips more than I'm trying to bust people and the best way for me to do that was to bet top pair and either get him to call me with a weaker hand or get him to fold whatever equity he had.

Am I right or was he right?

Anyway, I made it to level 7 (600/300/600) with $21,600.  With Ace-9 of spades, I opened to $1,600.  A guy shoved his last $3,100 and it folded back to me.  Couldn't fold for that price so I called.  He had pocket 3's.  The flop had a 9 on it but was all hearts and he had the 3 of hearts.  I faded the hearts but he rivered a 3 and that one hurt.

I tried to steal it when it folded to me on the button with King-deuce by raising to $1,800 but the small blind shoved.  Had to fold.

I opened to $1,800 with pocket 9's and got a call.  The flop was King high and I tried to get away with a c-bet ($2500).  But the other guy raised big and I had to fold.

That got me to level 7 (800/400/800) with $9,600.  So I open/shoved with pocket 3's.  I got called by the small blind who had me covered with King-9. He said he "had to call" me but I'm not sure why.  Well, he hit his 9 and I was done.

They ended up with 110 players and an $18K prize pool.  Not bad at all.  First place was $6K and the min-cash was $490 (acceptable!), 11 players were paid.  Would have been nice to have lasted into the money but I didn't run well enough…or didn't play well enough. Maybe both.

10 comments:

  1. How about your are both right. Some old school players believe that you never bet into a dry pot without a strong hand anytime during the tournament. IMO, during the early stages you have to accumulate chips so building a side pot makes total sense if you connect with any of the flop. When you are around the money (before or after) then object is to get players out.

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  2. After racking my memory bank I couldn't come up with a situation where early in the tournament it is better to check it down than play the hand. One time maybe midway through the structure I was called out for betting a turn that forced one player to drop out of the hand. I ended up with the nut flush and he would have had a straight flush on the river. I made both objectives: knock out the player and also kept those chips from going to a different opponent. It was a 10 person SNG that I did end up winning. IIRC in checkdown situations if you have the nuts on the river your obligated to make a bet or you fall into "soft play" with the other player(s) checking it down????

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  3. Thanks, Lester. Seems like I've had a post or two about having to bet with the nuts on the river. It is NOT required but it can be grounds for a warning under some circumstances, if I recall correctly.

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  4. Yes there is old school strategy that says you should just check it down when a short stacked player is all in. I understand the strategy, but the reality is that it is collusion and you shouldn't feel one bit of guilt or shame for betting with the best hand at any point in a tournament. You're there to improve your chances to win and not everyone else's. Now if it's late in the tournament and you're trying to ladder up then maybe it makes sense for you to increase the odds of eliminating a player. At that point I agree you should bet your hand for value if you think it's best. Other dude was just salty because he had to fold.

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    1. Thanks, Jeff. Makes sense to me obviously, but my lack of recent tournament experience did had me thinking there for a bit.

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  5. Screw that player! You certainly do not want to have him catch a lucky card and win those chips. And as you mentioned, any possible checking down would come much later in the tournament under different circumstances.

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    1. "Screw that player!" Great advice always, Lightning! Thanks.

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  6. Rob, why do you use $ when referring to tournament chips bet?! Isn't it more proper to say x chips? Am I too old school?

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    1. I actually discussed this some time back, Anony. I know that the $ sign is incorrect, since the chips don't have any cash value. But I really hate it to just have a number there without some kind of identifier. To say "I bet 600"....well that looks too naked to me And not the good kind of naked. Often you see them put a "T" in front of the number of chips, but I don't like that either. Looks awkward to me. So I use the $ sign even tho it's not technically correct. I do it for aesthetics. Anybody reading my blog will know what I mean, I figure.

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