Jumping back and forth in time to
write these blog posts sometimes creates some interesting surprises for
me. When I went back to listen to my
voice notes so I could write this here post, I discovered an incident I had completely
forgotten about. It was eerily familiar to an incident that had occurred over a
month later—one that I’d just written up a few days earlier. It’s a sad commentary on the state of my
memory these days that even when the story I told here
actually took place, I didn’t flash back to this earlier incident which
took place in the very same poker room just as my trip was getting under way.
In fact, this session took place the
day after I played Colossus (see here
and here).
And this was the day that I found out that Colossus had broken Vegas
poker. Because of the ripple effect of
all the folks playing Colossus, most of the Vegas poker rooms were packed and
had huge waiting lists to get into a cash game. Not expecting this to happen, I
had decided to forego a tournament on this Saturday, and regretted it once I
saw how busy all the cash games were.
Although my original plan was to spread my poker business over a couple
of rooms, once I got into a game at MGM, I decided to stay put for fear of
having to wait forever if I moved on.
So it was middle-afternoon when I got
into my usual 1/2 game. My first seat
was one of the corner seats that I hate (difficult for me to see from there) so
after just a few hands I moved to seat 1 when that player left. I folded my first hand in the new seat and
then found myself holding two Aces. I
hadn’t played a hand or put any money in a pot to that point, so I still had my
entire $200 in front of me. A player
limped and I made it $10. An older guy
with a baseball cap (worn the right way) who had over $400 in front of him made
it $30. There was a clueless guy who
came to the table short who called. I
say he was clueless because it seemed like a hand or two earlier he didn’t seem
to know what the big blind was—not how much it was, but what it meant to be the
big blind. Perhaps he just didn’t
realize it was his blind. But he had a
short stack, like $47, He took my old seat.
I guess he came from another table because otherwise he was well under
the minimum $100 buy-in.
I put another $100 out. Baseball cap guy announced, “I call—all-in.” Damn. He wasn’t angle-shooting, he just
messed up. Of course the dealer told him
that since the first thing he said was “I call,” he couldn’t go all-in. Clueless guy put his last few chips in and we
saw a flop of 10-10-9. I immediately put
out the rest of my chips and the big stack snap-called. The last two cards were low and he showed
pocket Queens. The clueless guy had
King-Queen. It was a pretty nice pot. After I stacked and counted my chips, I
had $437 in front of me.
Baseball cap guy felt the need to
defend his play. “Anybody would have done
that, right?” I guess he was talking to
me, I didn’t say anything. He turned to
the guy sitting between us, who he had been playing with for some time—and also
happened to be a former poker dealer I’ve played with several times before and
who has dealt to me in another room and who knew that I wrote for Ante Up. “You
would have done that, right?” The
ex-dealer is a real loose player but he didn’t answer the guy either.
I dunno, I think he maybe could have
found a fold there. He didn’t have any
read on me, but this was the first hand he’d seen me play (out of maybe 6,
tops) and I not only raised, I four-bet him.
How many hands am I doing that with? I think Queens was an easy lay-down after I put
out half my stack before the flop. Maybe
I’m doing that with Ace-King and then he’s got a coin flip for (potentially)
$200? Not sure I agree that “anybody”
would have done that. But I was happy he
did.
Within a relatively short period of
time, baseball cap guy ended up losing his entire stack, rebought, and then started
bleeding more chips. His stack was less
than $100, and he started playing blind.
Not always but he’d decided at the last minute to play his hand
blind. Sometimes he’d look at one card,
other times he’d just decided to call bets—or make bets himself—without looking
at his cards. Depending on his stack,
he’d sometimes shove blind, but mostly he’d play normal—except that he wouldn’t
look at his cards. Eventually, before
deciding to stack off on the turn or the river, he might look.
He kept winning. In fact, it seemed that whenever he didn’t
look, he’d win, but then he’d have enough chips to play with for real, so he’d
look at his cards, and then lose. He
started celebrating when he’d win if he had played blind (and it seemed like he
could only win if playing blind), pounding the table with glee, getting out of
his seat, whooping it up if he won a hand—doing a little dance, congratulating
himself on his win. Now, because of his
short stack, he wasn’t winning much, and it was obvious that he was celebrating
more because he was amazed that he kept winning this way than because of the
amount of money he was stacking.
There was this young guy at the table,
obvious grinder type. Hadn’t said a word
the entire time I’d been there. And he
lost to baseball cap guy and doubled him up.
It wasn’t much, and I didn’t note the hand, but I’m pretty sure the
grinder had a big hand and the guy playing blind totally sucked out on
him. And so he got up and did his dance,
and was all excited, and started yelling gleefully to a guy at the other end of
the table, “Did it again…that’s what, 5 times in a row I won playing
blind? Isn’t that great? That’s awesome! I should play blind all the
time!”
Yeah, it was annoying. And to some degree he was rubbing it in….but
again, it was more because of how he won than that he was celebrating a big
victory. And he surely wasn’t bragging
about his brilliant play, he knew how damn lucky he was. He was basically celebrating his dumb luck,
like a guy who was dealt three blackjacks in a row at the BJ table might.
But the young grinder didn’t
appreciate losing to him, not at all. And
so, for the first time since I’d gotten to the table, he said something. He said to the older guy, “Shut the f*** up.”
The older guy was taken aback, and the
grinder continued. “You’re an old
man. Show some class. Don’t rub it in.” The old guy didn’t really respond, I think he
was shocked. But the kid continued to
grumble about the guy’s behavior, and threw in a few more f-bombs to express
his disgust.
I have to admit, the kid had a valid
point. But you know, you can’t tell
another player to shut the f*** up.
Meanwhile, as soon as the first f-bomb came out of his mouth, the dealer
warned him to watch his language. He
ignored her. The dealer threatened to
call the floor, but the kid couldn’t stop himself, he kept grumbling about the
guy’s behavior and kept using foul language to do so. He seemed surprised that he was the one being
warned. He pointed out to the dealer
that it was the other guy who was engaging inappropriate behavior—celebrating
his wins excessively. The dealer kind of indicated that both of them were out
of line and warned the older guy about excessive celebrating. She kept saying to the kid, “calm down” and
“you can’t talk to another player that way.” But when the kid wouldn’t shut up,
the dealer did indeed call the floor, who happened to be the shift manager. All the older guy would say was, “Hey I haven’t
used any bad language.”
I was kind of surprise what happened
next. The kid was in a hand when the
manager showed up and got the story from the dealer. Then, the manager said to
the kid, “Go ahead and finish this hand and then you’re going to cash out for
the day.”
Wow, that was a quick hook. I would have expected the manager to speak to
both players individually and warn them about their behavior. I personally think that just hearing that
again from the manager—along with some time lapse—would have done it. I also
thought he might have just told the kid he had to change tables to get away
from the guy who had pissed him off. But
no, he just kicked him out for the day without even listening to him.
This didn’t exactly please the kid. He pointed to the other guy and said his
behavior was obnoxious. The manager
didn’t care, and when the guy resisted leaving, the manager said, “Look, right
now, you’re only being asked to leave for the day. Let’s not escalate this.”
The kid took the hint that he could
possibly be banned for longer than the day, and very reluctantly picked up his
chips. He did say to the manager, “This
is ridiculous, you kicking me out. You know how much I make for this casino
every day? Thousands of dollars.” Hmm….trying to figure out how a guy who plays
1/2 NLH makes a casino that kind of money.
Anyway, he was very upset but he left
without further incident. I have to say,
I didn’t think it was necessary to kick him out. Move him to another table, yes. Give him a “final warning,” sure.
I wonder if the fact that the waiting
lists were so long had something to do with it?
Perhaps with a full board of players waiting for his spot, it was easier
to just kick out the malcontent and give someone else his seat. I dunno, I thought it was a bit extreme.
The older guy left not long after and was
replaced by a guy in a white sweat suit. He was very friendly, talking to
everyone, decent guy. And a
luckbox. He played a lot of hands and
seemed to hit many of them. But I didn’t
see anything that made him look like a maniac, he just seemed to be lucky. The
clueless guy busted out by shove-bluffing air into a guy who had the nut
flush. He was replaced by a guy who was
even more clueless. Seriously, this guy
looked like he’d never seen a deck of cards before.
So by now I was down to around
$330. Sweat suit guy had over $400. The new clueless guy had bought in for $100
and somehow still had about $45 left.
And I got pocket Aces again. I
opened for $8. The guy in the white
sweat suit made it $37. New clueless guy
called. He left about $7 behind so
obviously he should have gone all-in, but as I said, he was clueless. Back to me, and I put another $120 on top of
the $8 already in front of me. Does that
seem like the right size bet?
Sweat suit guy asked for a count and
then called. Clueless guy put in his
last few chips. The flop was horrific:
King-Jack-King. I checked. Sweat suit guy bet $100. Back to me. I tanked.
That flop sure looked good for his
range, right? I mean, I figure he’s got
JJ+, or Ace-King. The only hand I can
put him on that I beat is pocket Queens.
Reluctantly, I folded.
Since he was heads up with the
clueless guy, he had to show his hand, which was of course, pocket Jacks. Clueless guy had Ace-rag and figured out that
he shouldn’t be playing poker and left.
Well, at least I made a good fold. The guy asked me what I had and of course I
said nothing. But he knew what I
had. “Why didn’t you shove
(pre-flop)? You shove, I’m gone. You gotta protect your Aces.”
I wanted to say nothing but I did let
these words escape my lips: “Is that a
good way to get value?” He repeated
himself. “You gotta protect your
Aces. You shove, I’m gone, I’m not
calling a shove. But you only raised, what, $100? You know Jacks have been good
to me. That’s why I called.”
Well, sir, you never told me that you
had Jacks or that they’ve always been good to you. I didn’t know. But if that’s the case, why wouldn’t you have
called a shove?
He harped on it for awhile. After the fifth or sixth time he asked me,
“Why didn’t you shove?” I finally said to him, “I’m sorry, I didn’t realize you
were that bad a player.” Yes, I said
that. Of course, I said it in a joking
way, at least I tried to. He shut up but
he didn’t seem upset. Unfortunately, I
may have gotten him to rethink his play.
I should have kept my mouth shut.
So apparently the purpose of poker is
to protect your Aces, not extract as much money from your opponents as
possible.
Later, he called a raise of mine and
said, “You’re gonna hate me even more if I hit this time.” I said to him, “I couldn’t hate you any more
than I already do.” Again, I made it
clear it was all in good fun.
Remember how I started this post. This situation was strangely similar to the
one that happened at least a month later where the guy told me I should
have bet more (or shoved) when I raised him on the turn with a full house. But I swear, I didn’t think of this “protect
your Aces” guy at the time. And when I
wrote that other post, I didn’t recall this story at all. Otherwise I might have combined them.
Anyway, I played on, nothing too
exciting happened after that, and booked a small win. And apparently, totally forgot about “protecting
my Aces” within a short period of time.
But now that I remember, I plan on
open-shoving my entire stack whenever I get them again.
My guess--and it's only that--is that grinder kid had a long history of the same kind of language issues previously, with plenty of warnings, and the floor knew that, and decided that they had apparently not sufficiently gotten his attention with just warnings before.
ReplyDeleteThat's a good possibility, Grump and you may be right. But....I had never seen the kid before and by now I think I've seen pretty much all the regular grinders who frequent that room.
DeleteMore significantly, the floor who kicked the kid out was actually the regular swing Shift Manager, the person most likely to know the kid if he was a reg. And there was no indication he had ever seen the guy before, didn't call him by name, made no indication to me that he knew the guy.
That said, I can't say with anything close to 100% certainty that you're wrong.
I'm surprised you've never seen that kid before because he said he made thousands a day for that casino, which is obviously silly but he still implied that he was a regular. Maybe he meant he usually plays other games in that casino? I can't see any other way he makes that much for the casino while gambling.
DeleteMaybe he plays there occasionally, which could be enough for the employees there to recognize him, but still doesn't play often enough for you to have seen him (or maybe you have seen him before and didn't recognize him because he didn't say a word).
Steve007
Yeah it was weird. Didn't look familiar to me, but I suppose we could usually play different times. I was there earlier than usual. I got no sense that the dealer or the Shift Manager recognized him tho
DeleteWhen they ask if I would have played it the same way, I always smile and sure, it was a cooler. Nothing you could do. I mean, why not? It's good for the karma of the game and good for your wallet, Keep 'em happy.
ReplyDeletewith a baseball cap (worn the right way)
Ahem!
Good suggestion, MOJO....I never seem to have the right comeback at the right time.
DeleteI think the young guy was being a tool. People go to Vegas to have fun. Seeing around a table with a bunch of nits folding every hand is boring. I would love to be on a table with an idiot who knows nothing about poker and is playing blind. The key is to wait for a good hand, isolate and then go for the showdown. I have seen too many players try to take these guys down too quickly. Of course, this guys was at the extreme. Grinder guy should know better than to tap the glass.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Darryl, yeah it was weird that he lost his cool, he didn't lose that much money, it wasn't a huge pot. I suppose it's more annoying that the guy beat him playing blind than just playing a week hand, but still, overall he should have just ignored it and figured out a way to take advantage.
DeleteOld guys celebrating after winning a pot and generally carrying on like a total assclown never used to happen. Thank you Joe Hachem et al.
DeleteYes....the downside of televised poker. The kid definitely had a point, just didn't express it the right way.
DeleteThe young guy expressed his anger and should have just let it go, but yeah -- easier said that done when worked up at a poker table. But he asked to be excused for the day. The older guy just seemed clueless and should probably just have been given an admonition.
ReplyDeleteAs for the guy with Jacks --- I would like a guy like him at my table every time.
btw -- if you stopped playing crap hands like AA and The Dreaded Pocket Kings and stuck to winners like Q-10, you'd likely do much better. Oh --but wait: only baaaaad players play (trapping hands like) Q-10. :o )
Hmm....I'm gonna take that under advisement, I shall ask my guru, Coach, on the profitability of playing Q-10. Maybe I should try harder to be a baaaaaaad player.
Deletemaybe he was kicked out because the dealer was a woman. maybe the floorman was friends with the older guy. maybe the kid was someone the floor just didnt like, maybe he tried to steal the floors wife or GF a few months back. people get kicked out for non logical and weird reasons.
ReplyDeleteThe important lesson to take away from the story, Tony, is that the guy took the hint and only got a one day ban instead of a permanent one.
DeleteYes the kid reacted emotionally and inappropriately, but then so did the older guy. I think if I were the kid and I lost my cool the, point I would have made to the floor is this, "Your dealer should have told the gentleman that his celebrations were over the top and then things never would have escalated to the point where another player felt like they had to speak up and ask him to kindly sit down and be quiet (or STFU)."
ReplyDeleteGood point....but I've never seen a dealer warn a player of excessive celebration, although there have been times I should. The kid should have just made a comment without using the language and I think he would have been fine. And like I suggested...I think the fact that they had a really long waiting list might have had something to do with it.
DeleteThe old man sounds annoying enough but I still wonder if the grinder had been losing that session. If he was already on tilt then that would be a reason why he went off on the old guy. It's also possible that he had been running badly recently. But then again that old guy does sound unusually annoying.
DeleteSteve007
I've had people celebrate, clap, get out of their chair, etc. after beating me in a big hand and it's super annoying when fish do that. I tend to be a quiet grinder type at the table. I just sit there and say nothing but I control my emotions better than most people so I can see why the grinder was annoyed.
ReplyDeleteSteve007
It was totally inappropriate....the only reason it didn't bother me more was because he wasn't winning huge pots, it was small change.
DeleteThat, and the fact he was never winning the money from me.