Tuesday, March 29, 2016

Do You Like Bounty Tournaments?

I guess this is going to be my first “real” post in awhile.  I returned from Vegas last week, and I’m still trying to figure out how to write up the posts I have in my mind from the trip—what is the best way to do them?  I mean, not only was the poker lousy for me, but I have to say, I have kind of soured on Las Vegas, as those of you who follow me on Twitter probably noticed.  I really wasn’t sorry to come home, and right now, I don’t feel any urgency at all in returning.  That is not because the poker was bad, it has more to do the Vegas itself.  Vegas is constantly changing and I don’t think what’s been changing is for the better—quite the contrary.  But I’ll get to that in the (near?) future.

When I got back home, I was a bit under the weather and thus ended up taking the weekend off (from blogging and pretty much everything else).  So that leaves me with precious little time to get a blog post ready for you good folks now. I don’t have time to go over my notes from the trip for a post, so I’m going to do something a bit different.  I’m going to talk about poker tournaments in a general sense. Specifically, bounty tournaments.


I’ve had the idea to talk about this running around on my brain for awhile, and I was recently reminded of it by Nick.  He was reviewing some of the upcoming summer poker tournaments and a $400 bounty tournament at Venetian caught his eye. He asked me if I had any idea what kind of turnout they’d get and how long the tournament might last.  I don’t think I was much help, but it did make me wonder—why a bounty tournament?

So let me throw the question open for discussion.  What do you all think of bounty tournaments?  Do you find them preferable to a regular tournament?  Less desireable?  Or does it make no difference to you?  And more importantly, why?

Bounty tournaments obviously have their fans (in addition to Nick).  They are a major part of a lot of series—a good percentage of Venetian’s evening events during the Deepstacks are bounty tournaments.  A lot of rooms have them on their regular schedules.  Most don’t have them daily, but they might replace their regular non-bounty tournament with a bounty version once or twice a week. 

They’re in the minority—most tournaments are not bounty tourneys.  So I guess they’re not quite as popular as regular ones.  So maybe some people just like them as a change of pace, to add some variety?  Yet I suspect there are some players who are “bounty hunters’—folks who prefer the bounty tourneys and play those almost exclusively.


So what is the actual the appeal of them?  Of course, I asked Nick and he pointed out the obvious—that if you knock a few players out, as you tend to do in a good tournament run—you get some of your buy-in back with the bounties.  Maybe you even knock out enough people so that you get all of your buy-in back, and maybe make a profit even if you don’t cash.  Right?

Well sure that’s possible.  To me though, that’s not worth the trade-off.  You’ve heard me bitch and moan over and over again about the payouts in tournaments, particularly the dreaded min-cash (here, for example). Well, those bounties just reduce the prize pool up and down the line, and/or reduce the number of people who actually cash.  So someone like me is not going to be happy with the pay scale of a bounty tournament, to be sure.  Of course you can make up the difference with the bounties you get, but that’s kind of hit-or-miss.

Or is it?  Because the next question I have is, does the fact that it’s a bounty tourney affect your style of play—and should it?  Are you more inclined to call a short stack’s all-in knowing if you bust him out, you get some money right then and there?  And is that really a good strategy?  If you are trying to win a tournament, why be distracted by something like that?  Your decision to call should be based on several factors, but should a $25—or even a $100—bounty, be one of them?  What if you call to get the bounty when you otherwise wouldn’t, and not only fail to knock the other play out, but cost yourself the chips you need to cash in the process?  Yes, of course, it could work the other way.  Maybe the bounty encouraged you to make the “right” call and helped you get chips, in addition to the bounty.  But to me, I don’t like having an outside factor affect my decision making.

What I really don’t get is when the bounties are small.  I mean, the one Nick was looking at has $100 bounties.  That’s certainly meaningful (but also means a very meaningful hit on the size of the overall prize pay outs).  But you see some bounty tournaments with really small bounties, and you have to wonder, what’s the point?  I guess I could be convinced that a $25 would be worthwhile, but once you get under that, I can’t see how it is even worth the effort to keep track of them. I guess that’s a knock on bounty tournaments—they create more work for the dealers and the players to keep track of.  And for a small bounty, it just doesn’t seem worth it.

I actually wrote a blog post about a bounty tournament I played at the Bike (see here).  It was a small tournament with $10 bounties and I honestly thought the bounties were just dumb.  I mean $10 bounties?  Absurd.  And I know there are actually really small tourneys around the country—say with $25/$30 buy-ins—that have $5 bounties!  That’s just nuts.  But then, I guess if you’re gonna play in a $25 tournament, you’re probably not much of a serious poker player anyway.

I seem to recall a few times last summer, when everyone had their big series going on, I was looking for a tournament to play and the only ones in my price range were bounty tournaments.  So I passed.  Frustrating.

And by the way...sometimes rooms run bounty tournaments where the bounties (which may be prizes, rather than cash) are funded by the room, not the prize pool.  Those are definitely worth playing, not at all what I'm talking about.

But maybe you guys have convincing arguments on the awesomeness of bounty tournaments.  Let me hear them.


17 comments:

  1. I absolutely love bounty tournaments. I personally believe tournaments are too top heavy. So bounties lower your variance by distributing out 25-33% to everyone who can earn it. So that when you take that brutal 2 outter near the money bubble you are not left walking away empty handed after playing for 8 hours. I do a $165 bounty tournament monthly where it is $50 bounty $100 to prize pool and $15 to dealers. This structure favors my LAG style of play because I am more likely to be involved in hands and more likely to knock people out. You are a TAG border line nit player so you are less likely to be involved in a bounty hand. It all comes down to personal preference and I personally love them. What's crazy is I've been to the final table with 12+ bounties before when only 100 people do the tournament and I've had 0 at the FT. The only thing that sucks is when you don't quite have someone covered and knock them down to 500 chips then someone else does mop up work on them.

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    1. Thanks for the feedback, Steven. So if I read it right, your basic argument is that, since payout structures stink, you figure you'll always get a little money (or maybe more than a little) by getting some bounties, and thus unlikely to leave empty handed. OK, I do see that point. Personally, I'd prefer the TD's make the payouts more fair instead.

      But it is a matter of preference, and it's great that bounty tourneys work for you. And the good thing is, apparently you don't have to alter your style in order to profit from them, as someone like me probably would have to.

      But you did point out something negative about the bounty events that I didn't mention--that scenario where you ALMOST bust someone, leave them down to a blind or two. Then some guy doing nothing special, just winning a rather nothing pot, gets the bounty when the guy with a blind or two has to shove a garbage hand and doesn't catch. That seems so unfair.

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    2. Yep. I think that there should always be a mixture of tournaments offered. Then you can choose what best fits your style and preference.

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    3. Indeed...never said they should stop offering Bounty tourneys....that they kept running them and they get good turnouts is proof that there is a demand for them. I was trying to understand the appeal. Thanks, again.

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  2. i am 1 of those u call a bounty hunter. im sorry but there is nothing worse then sitting there for 5-6hrs and running good then get knocked out of tourny right before cash and u knocked out like 4-6ppl but have nothing to show for it. its a terrible feeling

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    1. I agree, so you figure a few bounties that may or may not be enough to cover the buy-in softens the blow, huh? I suppose, maybe if I played bigger bounty tourneys I'd be persuaded a bit....but I think the biggest I've played had $25 bounties and it didn't seem worth it.

      Thanks for the comment, Annony.

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  3. I agree with Steve on pretty much everything he said. I am more of a TAG style player also. I'm also more comfortable with bounty tournaments due to the home game I used to play in having an optional bounty. 90% of the entrants paid for the bounty chip and I managed to adjust to that. Some people do indeed call lighter due to a bounty. I try to play as I would and only call light if I have enough chips to absorb any loss that would result.

    Another thought is that the bounty has to be proportionate to the buy in. If I'm playing a $400 tournament, $100 bounties mean I'm free rolling after 4 knock outs. However, a $25 bounty in the same tournament means I'd need 16 to break even, which is certainly much less likely.

    Overall, I think it depends on one's comfort level, and their experience with bounty tournaments. As long as play style isn't adjusted too much, they can be an added value.

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    1. Sorry, as anyone who knows me would agree with, that should have said I am more of LAG style player.

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    2. Thanks, Nick and thanks for inadvertently reminding me I wanted to do this post.

      All very valid points, obviously it does have to do with style of play.

      At least most of the bounty tourns I see are proportional. One of my problems is that I rarely play tournaments big enough to have bounties over $25!

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    3. Thanks for helping me with my questions Rob. I'm hoping to get the opportunity to play in the tournament we discussed, and if so, to have a showing worth writing about.

      Your willingness to discuss things and help with information, rather than just say check their website or pokeratlas, is much appreciated. Hopefully you won't stay away from Vegas forever, and we get another opportunity to play a session together sometime.

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    4. Glad to help, Nick.

      Yeah, I'm not likely to exile myself from Vegas forever....not sure I want to face the King of Pocket Kings again!

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  4. One of the few times where the photos you placed in the post were subpar haha.

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    1. Really, xdex7? Even the last one? Not enough for you? Wow.

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    1. OK...makes sense. I agree there can be too much of a good thing. It's subjective.

      I wanted to get a picture of a hot woman holding up the Bounty paper towels (or the Bounty candy) but didn't find it. So I had to settle for a woman who was "bountiful."

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    2. WTF??????? 2much??? never toooooo much tittays

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    3. Yeah, I figured you'd see it that way!

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