We Get Letters: Ohcowboy12go's Dilemma

I love hearing from my readers.  My friends, really. 

Of course I get plenty of comments in reaction to my posts, all of which I appreciate.  Well, almost all. 

But I also get tweets and emails from you folks, and I appreciate those too.  One of the things people write to me about is online poker. It seems that with further USA options opening up,  there’s a lot of interest in playing online.  It's great playing from the comfort of your home, and I always found it great practice for when you're ready to hit the brick and mortar rooms.  I actually learned how to play online.  I started with really small stakes and then worked my way up. Great way to get into poker--and to hone your skills.  Just remember that the games tend be a lot looser online.  Although with some of the crazy play I've seen live, maybe not so much anymore!

Then there are the folks who love to tell me about the hand they just lost with the dreaded pocket Kings.  And of course I’m always willing and able to offer them sympathy when I hear a story like that.

And sometimes, a reader writes in to tell me of a situation that want my reaction to, some feedback on.  I have to say, it’s not usually poker strategy.  I guess my readers are pretty smart in that regard.

But I do talk a lot about etiquette and floor rulings. There are quite a few posts here with that label.  So it wasn’t that surprising when an email from “Ohcowboy12go” showed up a few days ago. I’m gonna call him Cowboy for short, I hope he doesn’t mind.  You’ve seen his comments on my blog and most of the others in our blogging community.

Anyway, here’s his email: 
.
"I’ve always respected your approach to the game of poker and wanted to get your opinion on how you would have reacted to the following situation.

Let me first give you some background to the situation.  I was playing 1-2 cash at the Cincinnati Horseshoe Casino and was having a slow night.  I was down about $130 for the evening and was probably playing my B- game because I was not focusing on every hand.

After a couple of limpers, I raise it to $10 with TT and we go to the flop 5 handed.

Pot (53);  Flop T96dd;  Checks to me and I bet $35 and get called by 2 players.  One player has $6 left and the other player would call with any pair or any draw.

Pot (158);  Turn Kh;  First player goes all-in for $6, 2^nd player calls $6; and I shove my last $110 into the pot.  2^nd player calls.  I knew he would still call with any draw, any 2 pair, a smaller set or obviously a straight.

River; 2s;  First guy turns over his hand and shows QJ for the nut straight.  I turn over my set of tens.  The other guy turns over his hand and I see an 8.

The dealer starts to count my stack (I had less than player 2) and then mucks player’s 2 hand.  I had assumed that I had won the side pot since I didn’t see the other player’s hand.  The player sitting next to the 2^nd player stated that he had a straight also and that player said yes I had 87 for the straight to the ten.  The dealer apologized and agreed that she missed the straight and gave the side pot to the 2^nd player.

All hands were tabled and nobody mucked their own hand.  However, the 2^nd player didn’t protect his hand until the pot was given to him.  Now part of this issue is my fault because I was not being 100% alert and getting all of the info that I could and looking to see what player 2 called me with.  Due to the dealer’s actions, I was already calculating how much of a gain/loss I had on the hand given winning the side pot and losing the main pot.

I don’t believe the other players were lying or angle shooting on making up the straight hand.  Given all of this info, would you have called the floor to get a ruling?  I think if I would have done this, I would have ended up winning the side pot due to player 2’s hand being mucked.  (This is based on other rulings I’ve seen at this casino).  

Conclusion:  I didn’t call the floor and accepted the loss.  

Let me know your thoughts. "

I’m going to give you my initial response to Cowboy’s story, but I would also love to hear from the rest of you to see if you agree.

Here’s what I said: 

"It's a tough situation.  If you thought that maybe the dealer didn't see the straight and was taking the other person's word for it, then I would definitely have asked for the floor.

But if you think the dealer saw the straight and just made a mistake, I wouldn't question it.  Yeah, technically you could say the guy deserved to lose the pot for not protecting his hand but.....maybe you deserved to lose it for not paying attention to his hand when he showed it?  I think it would be a bit extreme to claim a pot you didn't win based on his neglect.  If the error wasn't discovered until later, and no one but the guy could verify his straight, that's one thing but....not as it played out. "

Cowboy wrote back and said: 

"Thanks for your input.  I felt the same way that you did and that is why that I acted in that manner.  I’m not 100% sure that the dealer realized the straight, but I think she was persuaded by the players that were adamant and I didn’t protest so it was an easy decision for her. "

I had also asked him if it would be ok if I reprinted his email as sort of a guest-post and he said fine.

Not only is this worth discussing because of the issue involved (protesting the pot being awarded to someone else) but I think it is once again a great reminder of “protecting your hand.”  Of course, the guy in the story didn’t protect his hand….but neither did Cowboy.  By not focusing on what his opponent hand, he left himself questioning whether the dealer had done the right thing.

Actually, I sometimes have difficulty seeing what my opponent is holding at showdown, if he’s on the opposite side of the table.  My eyes are not great.  In that case, I always ask the dealer.  Some dealers are not very good about taking the winning player’s cards and putting them in the center so everyone can see them.  In this case, the dealer didn’t do that because she thought he had lost, initially. So it is a bit of tricky situation.  I’d be interested to see if anyone thinks Cowboy should have contested the ruling.

Another thing people contact me for is advice.  Where to play, where to stay, where to eat.  It’s nice that they respect my opinion.  I do the best I can, but when people ask me where to get great Mexican food in Vegas, they’re asking the wrong guy.  Anyway, it’s no wonder I get questions like that.  According to this article in the RJ, tourism to Vegas is on a record pace. With so many people coming to town, of course a few of them will be desperate enough to ask for my advice!

Anyway, I always appreciate hearing from you, whether it’s by email, or tweet, or a blog comment.  And by the way, if you can’t find my email address right over the right side of this blog, you could always get in touch with me by leaving a comment on the current post.  No comments are published until I approve them, so just start your comment by saying, “I don’t want this published but….” And I will read your message and respond appropriately.  Or inappropriately, as the case may be.

Just remember….in the words of Frasier Crane, “I’m listening.”