"Have You Ever Had an Asian Boyfriend?"

This took place just two days before Christmas, last year.  I wanted to check out a store that was part of the Linq Promenade, so I figured I’d try to play at the Linq. But when I got there, there was no game going and no one was on the list.  So I headed over to Harrah’s.  There were two games going, but both were shorthanded.  I think I was the 6^th player at the table they sent me to, but there was a missing player. I was thinking that if I hadn’t shown up, they might have soon combined the tables.

The table I was at was pretty tight, not exactly an action table.  I think under different circumstances, I might have headed for greener pastures.  But this was during the time that my back was acting up and I just didn’t feel like I could walk to the Venetian or Caesars across the Strip.  Of course, I could have gone back to my car and driven somewhere else, but I figured that would be just as much walking as trekking to the V, so I decided I’d gut it out at Harrah’s.

It turns out that not only did both tables fill up, but they were actually able to start a third 1/2 game before I left.

One thing that usually impresses me at Harrah’s is the cocktail service.  It may be as good as any poker room in Vegas.  The waitress, a cute young girl I’ll call Rachael, seemed to come back for orders every 10-15 minutes. There was an Asian man at my table (shocking, I know), who I believe was a regular.  He was wearing a baseball cap.  I couldn’t really tell his age, but he was definitely old enough to be Rachael’s father.  And in saying that, it’s entirely possible that I may be understating that by a generation.

Well, at one point, as Rachael had her back to our table while she was tending to the other table, this Asian man leaned back, and without really looking at her, asked, “Rachael, do you have a boyfriend?”

Rachael stopped what she was doing and responded, “I do not.”  I thought it was a bit odd the way she answered. Not “no.”  Not “I don’t.”  But “I do not.”

The man then asked, “Have you ever had an Asian boyfriend?”  Rachael laughed, and I just totally cracked up.  That was an interesting approach.

Rachael said, “No, I never have.”

The Asian gentleman said, “Well, you should try it some time.”  She didn’t respond, and left to get her drinks. I believe the Asian man had left the game before she got back.

It took quite some time for me to get any cards worth playing.  I did call a straddle with pocket deuces.  Three of us saw a flop of 6-6-2.  I called a $10 bet and it was heads up.  The turn was a 5, and when the other player bet just $10 again, I raised to $25, but he folded.

I called $7 from the big blind with Ace-9 of clubs.  Four of us saw an Ace-high flop that had two clubs.  I called $15 and it was heads up.  I called another $15 on a Queen of spades turn.  The river was another Ace and I bet $35 and took it down.

So I guess I was a bit over my $200 buy-in when the first really interesting hand took place.  In middle position, I opened to $8 with pocket Jacks.  A big stack called, and then a new player in the game made it $35 from the big blind and it folded back to me.  Hmm.  The guy had only been there for a few hands. He had been fairly active right from the start, definitely on the aggro side.  Still, I didn’t think I had enough information to peg him as a maniac.  He might have just gotten an unusual amount of decent hands to start.  It happens.  He had a similar stack to mine, perhaps a little less.

Well, I’m not going to four-bet Jacks unless I think the three-bettor is a total maniac.  Does anyone think a fold there is appropriate?  I mean, if I was purely set-mining, the potential payoff isn’t enough to justify it.  But you know, sometimes a pair of Jacks is a winning hand.  I decided to call, the other player folded.

The flop was 10-9-5, rainbow. To my complete surprise, he checked. It was hard for me to come up with a hand he would three-bet with (from the big blind, no less) that he would not c-bet that flop with. He’s either got an over pair (maybe Queens, most likely Kings or Aces) or maybe Ace-King.  At least that’s what I assume from players who three-bet in a Vegas 1/2 game until I see something to convince me otherwise.  I know that if I had raised with Ace-King and it was heads up, I’d definitely c-bet that flop. 

I know that Ed Miller would be saying that since he checked, I should bet.  I did have an over pair.  But I didn’t, I checked.  So I have to admit that I played the hand badly. Really no reason not to bet there.

But the turn was a Jack.  This time, he bet--$50.  Also interesting.  Did he have Ace-Jack?  Was he taking a stab with nothing since I had checked behind?  Did he now have some kind of draw?  Well, of course, he could have had King-Queen and just filled in his gut-shot when I caught my set.  I really dismissed that.  I just didn’t think it was very likely he would three-bet from the big blind with King-Queen, even if it was sooooted.     

I raised to $125.  He snap-shoved, and I snap-called.  If I was wrong about him not having King-Queen, at least I had outs.  The river was harmless looking low card.  He flipped over pocket 9’s!  I showed my over-set and took down a very nice pot.  I had him covered by just a few red chips and he left the game.  I counted $455 in front of me when I finished stacking.

So he three-bet with pocket 9’s from the big blind.  He was indeed an aggro, huh?  He got real unlucky with his decision to slow-play the flop.  And he got unlucky because I misplayed it by not betting.  I’m guessing he might have check-raised me if I had bet the flop.  And then I likely fold.  And so he would have won a decent pot instead of losing all his chips. 

Back to being card dead.  It was quite a few orbits before I played the other interesting hand of the night.  I had Ace-3 of hearts in the big blind.  The button raised to $12, the small blind called, I called, and it was three-way.  The flop was King-Jack-5, all hearts.  I recommend flopping the nut flush whenever possible.  Knowing that many players won’t c-bet a monotone board (especially three-ways), I donked out $25.  The button made it $75.  Sweet.  The small blind quickly got out of the way.  I made it $200 which was essentially putting him all in to call.  He snap called.  What did he have?  A set?  A smaller flush?

We didn’t show.  The final two cards were total blanks leaving me with the stone cold nuts.  He showed his hand: King of diamonds, Queen of hearts.  OK, top pair, decent kicker and a draw to the second nuts.  Did he play that well?  Or did he just give me $200 due to bad play?  Either way, I was glad to take those chips off his hands.

The only other hand I noted was another suited Ace, this time A-4 of clubs in the small blind.  I called a small raise and the flop was 7-4-4.  That time I checked and the preflop raiser checked too.  I bet $25 on the turn and took it down.

Before I left I decided to take a picture of my stack.  I tweeted out the pic and also posted it on Instagram under the title “Chip porn.” 

My back started telling me it was time to go, so I left up $460.  It was my most profitable cash game session of the trip.

Follow Up To The Exposed Hand Story

Last week, I published a post about an incident at the Venetian where a player intentionally exposed his hand after going all-in even though there four people left with live hands.  You can—no, you should—read that post if you have somehow failed to commit it to memory. You can find it here and while you’re enjoying it all over again, as if it was the first time you read it, please note the comments from the esteemed Tony Bigcharles and an anonymous lurker right below claiming to be an ex-dealer.  

They felt that the dealer should have told the player whose action it was on what the exposed cards were when asked.  Now, he wasn’t specifically asking the dealer, he was asking everyone at the table, or should I say anyone at the table to tell him.  Everyone kept quiet; a few said that it would be wrong to tell him. In my post, I expressed surprise that in fact no one did tell him, which I maintained was the right thing to do.

At the time, and even as I was writing the post weeks later, it never occurred to me that a case could be made for making the player show his cards a second time.

But I thought about what Tony and the ex-dealer said, and figured I would do a little research. 

You know, they don’t call me “Robvegaspoker” for nothing, and as Tony himself has stated, I have more juice than anyone in the Vegas poker community.  So I contacted a bunch of folks who work in poker rooms in Vegas for their insight.  This included dealers, floor people, tournament directors, and poker room managers. 

Most responded, for which I am very grateful.  There was some disagreement. A few agreed with Tony, most did not.  Basically, the higher up on the poker food chain the person was, the more likely they were to say the hand should not be re-exposed.

I didn’t ask any of the people I contacted if I could quote them, so I will not attribute any of the quotes to the person who said it.  You’ll just have to take my word for it that these are quotes from people who know their stuff.  I’ll start with the two who thought the hand should have been re-exposed (or the dealer should have told the player what cards were flashed).

A dealer/floor person said this:  “You had the information available to you to make a decision, the other players in the hand should have had that info available.

“I would have had him turn it up. I may have called the floor. I would call the floor if there was any sort of protest or resistance, if the player was drunk, or if the player was a problem in any way. If it was just an oops sort of thing, I wouldn't call the floor. Just because someone doesn't see someone accidentally flash their cards doesn't mean they aren't paying attention. What if it's the player in the 1 seat and the player in the 10 seat doesn't have a view of them?

“Sometimes players will hold their cards in a way that their neighbor can see. Does that mean that the player next to them is privy to the info because they are sitting close enough to pay attention? This is why there aren't always 100% black and white rules in poker. Sometimes you have to take other things into consideration.”

Another person who has dealt, floored, occasionally filled in for shift managers said this: “It's a tough decision because if a player exposes his hand with action pending and if you are certain a player that has action pending has seen the hand, then you pretty much have to turn the hand face up for all to see. Especially if it’s more than one player left to act. It's almost like if a card gets exposed on the deal but maybe only one player sees it. If there is any doubt then you turn the card face up and expose it to all the players.

“Of course the player (who didn’t see the hand) has a responsibility too but I can't completely punish the player. If I'm in seat 1 and I’m thinking about what to do and he's in seat 10 and exposes it and seats 7,8.9 all see it and they all have hands as well, I'm not going to punish seat 1 for information that was freely given.

“I also could be confusing it with a decision where a player shows another player their cards to someone that has a hand themselves when there are more people involved in the hand. In that situation, you would expose the player’s hand that had shown their cards to another player.”

Everyone else took the other side, my position. 

From a current room manager: “I don't make the dealer expose the cards. Everybody had an equal chance to see them when they were exposed, for those that didn't see them, tough luck, pay attention. I don't let the dealer say what he thinks they were because he could be wrong and we know that doesn't end well.  Like you I am amazed nobody spoke up during the hand. If they had I'd have given them the most minor of warnings.”

From a long-time, former room manager: “Yeah. Everyone should follow the action. It's your responsibility as a poker player. The guy handed out a gift and if someone didn't see his hand it's their own fault. I'm surprised nobody asked for the floor. You might get a show one show all ruling because there were multiple players left in the hand but I don't agree with it. Then you affect the outcome of you winning the hand. Floor’s job is to not affect the outcome of the hand with their ruling.”

From a former room manager, current floor person: “The dealer is not part of the game and should absolutely not state what the cards are. Further, when I’ve dealt and had a player accidentally flip his hand over, I've covered it and then not let the player touch it until all the action is done. I keep my hand on it the entire time. The last part of this is, had the player stayed in the game, he should be told the next instance of this in a non-heads up situation would result in a dead hand. You are not allowed to expose your hand in a multi-way pot.”

A poker buddy of mine who briefly dealt himself contacted one of his pals who has managed rooms all oover the country.  That person came back with this: “He said he's made this decision several times in his career. He would not make the player turn over KK because even though it was turned over, it’s now protected with action pending, so he can't make a player turn over a protected hand until the action completes.”

Now the last person I consulted with I can’t quote.  He is a poker room manager and when I emailed him, he actually took the time from his busy day and called me to go over it, feeling that it would be easier to talk through than write down.  So I have to go from memory.

He immediately mentioned the “show one, show all” rule—but said it would only be relevant after the hand was over.  In other words, had the player who exposed his hand won the pot without being called, he would have insisted that everyone saw his cards at that point, when the hand was over.

But he was adamant that the dealer do nothing to influence the action at all.  In fact, he said the dealer should do nothing, period.  The dealer is not part of the game, the dealer only controls the game.  He said what many of the others said, if that one player missed the opportunity to see the hand, that’s on him for not paying attention.

He also made a point of not punishing the player who exposed his hand any more than necessary.  Suppose the player who didn’t see the hand was the last player to act?  Or, suppose neither one of us had seen the cards?  In that case, making him expose his hand is basically taking his money and giving it to one of us (if one of us could see that we beat his hand).  That certainly isn’t fair. 

He went on to say that the ruling would be the same for tournaments or cash games (I only asked because he has a lot of experience running tournaments).  He said that had it happened in a tournament, and the player still had chips after the hand, the player who flashed his cards would have been penalized by having to sit out a orbit (unless that would have blinded him out of the tournament, than an exception would be made).  In a cash game, if he had stuck around, he just would have received a warning.

Well that’s basically it.  I’ll try to summarize. I think to some degree, the way I told the story influenced the thinking of those who felt the cards should be exposed.  They were looking at it as if it was accidently exposed card during the deal, or when a player folds and his hand is accidentally exposed.  But those are dead cards, not cards from a live hand.  Big difference.

As noted, the player who exposed his cards should not be automatically punished with the loss of his stack unnecessarily. That player on my right would have still been asking what the hand was even he was the last player to act.  Think of it that way.  In that case, you don’t have to worry about another player (me) having the advantage of seeing his cards, it’s just a case of that one player left—if he missed seeing the cards, why give him that information that he would otherwise not be entitled to.  Those thinking it should be exposed again are considering that another player, again, me, had information he didn’t have.  But at the time the action was on the other guy, no one knew that.  The dealer didn’t know that I saw the hand. 

Suppose neither one of us saw the hand.  And then suppose the dealer did reveal the hand again to us. Now further suppose that the player in front of me would then fold because he could not beat the hand.  And I didn’t see it originallyeither, but after the dealer told me what I had, I now knew that I could beat the hand.  So if the hand wasn’t exposed a second time, we both would have folded and no harm to the player who had a brain fart.

The player has to do everything in his power to protect his hand, right?  That includes paying attention, sorry the guy didn’t see it, but that’s life.  He wasn’t supposed to see it anyway.  I wasn’t either, but I did, and I got a gift.  I’m not returning it. 

Once or twice playing poker in the past, when I still had live cards, I’ve accidently exposed my hand.  I immediately covered the cards with my hands and turned them back over.  Did anyone see them?  Did everyone see them?  In those cases it was clearly an accident and no one said anything about my hand being exposed.  But it is possible somebody with cards saw them and another person with cards did not.  Should I have been ordered to expose my hand again?  I surely was not told to do so.

Slightly different in this case only in that the player, in a moment of incredible brain-deadedness, flipped them over on purpose, and it was obvious that many players saw the cards.  But the principal is the same.

Anyway, thanks to all my friends and associates who responded to my request for the review.  I really appreciate it!

Stan Lee, Steven Spielberg & The Truck That Ran Over Me

Yesterday I returned to Player’s Casino in Ventura for my first poker session since returning from Vegas at the beginning of the month.  The way things went, it might be my last for awhile.

I had to wait a bit for a seat.  As the list grew, it was beginning to look like they’d have enough to open a new 2/3 game shortly.  While I was waiting, I noticed the fellow I dubbed “Director” in the post here was also waiting to get in a game.  For the purpose of this post, I’m going to change my mind from that post and let you know that the director this fellow looks like is actually Steven Spielberg.  Keep that in mind.

But there was another guy waiting for a game that caught my attention even more.  He was, ahem, an older gentleman.  And I did a double take when I first saw him, because he really, really, really looked a lot like Marvel Comics guru Stan Lee. You all know who that is, right?  If not, I’m sure that by now, at least 60% of you have figured out how to use Google. “Stan” was waiting for either a 2/3 game or a 3/5 game.  It never occurred to me to tell Stan that he looked like Stan Lee, that’s just something I almost never do. 

It didn’t take long for the new game to be called, and both “Stan” and “Spielberg” as he will now be referred to were there at the start.  Most of the players and all of the dealers knew Stan and called him by his real name.  I assumed the reason I didn’t recognize him was that he is usually playing the bigger game. I took seat 9 right next to the dealer.  Stan was in seat 5, across from me.  Spielberg took seat 7. The guy in seat 8 didn’t look familiar to me either, but it was obvious he was at least a semi-regular in the room.  He probably wasn’t familiar with Stan though, for the same reason as me.  Anyway, I’m not sure there had been a hand dealt when seat 8 said to Stan, “Have you ever been told how much you look like Stan Lee?”

I cracked up, and immediately said, “Yeah, I thought the exact same thing.  Totally.”  But Stan denied knowing who Stan Lee was.  Seat 8 gave him a brief primer, and said how glad he was that they were finally making movies out of the comic books.  I added, “Yeah, and most of them are good.  In the old days, the ones they made sucked.” 

And then seat 8 turned to the guy next to him, Spielberg, and said, “And this guy looks like Steven Spielberg!”  Spielberg just kind of groaned and nodded.  “Yeah, I get that all the time.  I just wish I had his money.”  I said, “Just 1/10^th of his money would be more than enough.”

I whispered to seat 8, “I’ve thought that since the first second I laid eyes on him.”  He responded, “I guess we’re both revealing our nerd side.”  Note:  I was reading comics long before it was cool to do so.  And now that it is cool, I no longer read them.  I was about to ask him if I looked like anyone famous (like Gabe Kaplan, or Costanza), but we got sidetracked.  He would have said something if he had noticed though, for sure.

The dynamic of the game was impacted almost immediately by a couple of incredible luck boxes at the table.  One was Stan, the other I’ll get to shortly.

Stan opened the first two pots with huge raises, and at least one shove on the flop.  But he started showing his hands when he wasn’t called, and he always hit something.  If he only had top pair, it was a poor result for him.  He’d hit two pair with two crappy cards time and time again.  If there was any way he could make a straight, he’d do it.  At least once he played two really crappy suited cards (not even close to be connected) and turned a flush.  Once he hit two pair with Jack-4 (he had limped in) and said, “Doesn’t everyone play Jack-4?”  We were all in agreement that he should play any two cards, they were all like Aces to him.

He would raise big preflop.  At first he wasn’t called very often, but then players had to start calling.  Frequently then, he’d shove on the flop, always an overshove.  Sometimes he would get called by a smaller stack; other times he wouldn’t, but he’d show a good hand.  He was kind of surprised himself, saying he couldn’t remember having a run like this.

The shoves were interesting.  I think most of the time, he was actually shoving so that players wouldn’t call and loss their chips.  Seriously.  Although there were other times when he was shoving to prevent a draw from hitting.  One of the oddest times I recalled was when there were a bunch of limpers (he did limp quite a bit after all, but very rarely didn’t enter a pot at all).  The flop came 9-8-7, rainbow.  It checked to him and he said “all-in.”  It was an $18 pot and he had by this time around $600 in front of him.  No one called and he said, “I had to shove, I had to prevent any draws, I had the bottom end,” and he showed 6-5.  So it was an interesting playing style to say the least.

After about 20 minutes, he was called to the 3/5 game.  To no one’s surprise, he turned it down, preferring to stay put, where he was catching cards like nobody’s business.

I’d only played a few hands, one was a pocket pair that missed, and I think I raised with Ace-King and whiffed. There were many callers and I folded to a donk bet.

So it was still early in the session when I was dealt two Aces in early position. I had around $260 when the hand started.  I opened to $15.  That’s actually more than my standard open here ($12) but bigger raises were being called.  I probably should have made it $20 or $25.  Only 4 players called me. The flop was 10-8-2, two spades (no spade in my hand).  I led out for $50.  It folded to the button in seat 6.  I was very relieved Stan had folded, I would have bet that he had at least two pair or a set or the flush draw.  Now set 6 was yet another look-alike.  It took me awhile to figure it out but I eventually realized he looked like Prudence’s ex, Tom, if Tom had a beard.  So let’s call him Bearded Tom.  Bearded Tom took a long time to decide, and then finally called.  His stack was pretty close to mine, probably just a few bucks more.

A red 9 hit the turn, and I really wasn’t concerned about filling in a gut-shot.  I led out with $100, with maybe $95 left behind.  Bearded Tom immediately announced all-in. 

Ugh.  Well, I knew I might be behind and possibly even drawing dead.  But based on the size of the pot and the amount I had left, I couldn’t see folding.  I had made that bet of half my stack prepared to get the rest in anyway.  With stack-to-pot ratio of just a bit over 3 on the flop, that’s what should happen, right?  I called.

The river was a meaningless deuce or something.  He showed pocket 9’s for a turned set.

Pocket-freaking-9’s?  I said nothing.  I rebrought, and just simmered.  As soon as I got my chips, I took a break and walked outside.  Ugh.

He called $50 on the flop and then hit is god-damned two outer.  Yeesh.

So I’ve been trying to figure out if I made any mistakes on the hand  Would welcome feedback.  The problem is that the pot was so big preflop that I almost had to bet enough to commit me if the turn wasn’t scary. At first, I thought he just made a bad play and got lucky.  Well the lucky part is true, but calling me on the flop maybe not so much.  I could have just been making a c-bet with an Ace-King type hand. Although with four players, including luckbox Stan in the hand, that seems unlikely.

I know, for this table, I should have raised more pre.  But even if I had opened $25, I’m sure that Stan would have called it with any hand that he’d call $15.  Bearded Tom almost certainly would have called with 9’s if Stan had called. So even if it was just the three of them, the pot would have been the same, and could have been more.

I think my flop bet is ok….2/3’s the pot?  In hindsight, a few bucks more may have gotten a fold, but I think that was a good size bet, no?  Maybe a pot-size bet would have discouraged his float there?

I really wasn’t worried about the gut-shot.  But should I have checked the turn just to avoid getting it all in?  I thought I wanted to get it all in.  And if he was on the flush draw, I wanted to charge him.

So any thoughts would be appreciated.

As a result of this hand, Bearded Tom became luckbox number two.  He also started catching cards, just like Stan. He rivered a straight flush against Stan, but Stan didn’t call his bet.  He flopped a boat.  I mean, for awhile there, they were just taking turns hitting flops.  The rest of us were basically spectators to the show.

What do you do in a situation where two people are getting hit by the deck like that?  I mean, if there are obviously better players than you at the table, you should ask for a table change. But if they’re just lucky, the luck should even out eventually, right?

I figured I’d wait for that to happen.  In less than 10-minutes after returning from my cooling off break, I found myself looking at the dreaded pocket Kings in the big blind. OK...An early position player made it $10, and then Stan bumped it to $45.  I made it $100, which was too little.  It made absolutely no difference as it turned out, but I should have made it more.  I guess I was just thinking about how lucky Stan had been, and how it was so likely he’d smash the flop if he didn’t already have pocket Aces.  The first guy thought for some time before folding, and then Stan called.  I had decided that I would shove over a raise from him and call his shove if he had shoved.

Do I have to tell you that the flop was Ace-high?  I don’t remember the other two cards, but neither of them was a King.  Before I even had a chance to act, Stan, totally acting out of turn, announced all-in.  Well that made it easy for me.  There was no way he didn’t have at least an Ace.  I checked and folded to his shove.  He showed his hand…Ace-King.  So I’m rather certain there was no four-bet I could have made that would have gotten him to fold, though I suppose he might have thought twice if I had shoved initially.  But that wouldn’t have been the right play.

I guess I got off lucky. My too-small four-bet ended up saving me some money.

I got Kings again not too long after.  Stan limped in from early position and it folded back to me.  I made it $25.  This time, everyone folded including Stan.

I might have won another small pot when I raised with Ace-King after a few limpers and no one called.

My stack had dwindled down to about $120, and I was about finish, time to leave. Actually, a bunch of players, including Stan, announced they were about to leave so the table was likely to break. I called a $6 straddle with pocket 7’s. It was like 6-7 of us seeing the flop, including Stan.  The flop was all hearts, something like 10-7-3.  Stan led out for $40.  It folded to me.  Well, if I lose the rest of my chips on a flopped set, so be it.  I shoved, sure that Stan would call and hoping he didn’t already have the flush.  It folded back to Stan, who had announced that this would be his last hand and had already racked his chips.  I was sure he’d call, it wouldn’t have been all that much more and he had had a great day.  But he said, “OK, I’ll let you have it.”  He showed a 10.  So I got some money there, just not that much.

Actually, it was a very friendly table, a lot of laughing (mostly in awe of Bearded Tom and especially Stan) and tons of politically incorrect jokes (so extreme I can’t relate them here). At one point, Stan asked a dealer if he had seen the Asian lady he was playing with the day before.  He had not.  He said, “She had tits that wouldn’t quit.”  Who wants tits that quit?  He claimed that he told her that he couldn’t play at her table, she was too distracting.  I think there was more to the story, but he got distracted by another flop he had just smashed and never finished.

And that was it.  I cashed out down over $400.  I think I would have been better off playing with the real Stan Lee and the real Steven Spielberg.  The tits wouldn’t quit, but I did.