Everyone hates to be slow rolled,
right? Well, yesterday I was slow rolled
and didn’t mind very much. I even got a
chuckle out of it.
Once again I spent a Saturday
afternoon at Player’s Casino in Ventura.
This was the first time since I started playing there that I was able to
get a seat right away into the 2/3 game. The place was the least busy I’ve ever
seen it. It might have been due to the
gorgeous Southern California weather encouraging folks to engage in outdoor
activities. But we have that about 335 days a year. So I suspect it was more
due to a lot of folks taking their summer vacations. I took the last available
seat they had—there were 3 tables of it running the entire time I was
there. I didn’t recognize anyone at the
table.
After going through an orbit and a
half without playing a hand, I looked down at the the dreaded pocket Kings in middle position. There had been a limper so I
made it $15 and had 3 callers. When it
got to the guy on my immediate right, the original limper, he tanked and
actually asked for time. He had a fairly smallish stack, around $40-$45 and I
wondered if he was considering putting it all in. But he folded and later volunteered that he
had Ace-Queen—and was only thinking of calling, not shoving.
It was a rather nice flop, King-9-4,
rainbow. The first two players checked
and it was on me. I wasn’t sure what to
do. Pretty safe flop for my hand—should
I slow play it? That might have been my
default play. But then I remembered the
latest Ed Miller book, where he talks about “streets of value” and if you have
a hand that’s worth three streets of value, you want to have a plan to get it
all in by the river if you can.
Actually, I got a comment reminding me of the “streets of value” thing
on a recent post. So I thought that I
should bet. After all, the pot isn’t
going to build itself. And I hadn’t been
at the table long enough to have a read on anyone—like anyone who might try to
steal if I checked, or might overplay a mediocre hand. With no information on the players, and
having been the preflop aggressor, I went ahead and put out $30. But no one bit and I didn’t get much for my
set of Kings. OTOH, any kind of win with
that hand is a huge win for me.
And then—stop me if you’ve heard this
before—I went card dead. Completely and utterly
card dead. For a good 90 minutes, I got
virtually nothing to play. A few suited
Aces I called raises with which whiffed every flop. No Ace-King or Ace-Queen or other playable Broadway
cards. The next biggest pocket pair I
got was pocket 10’s, when I was in the small blind. It folded to me and we chopped. I did get pocket 3’s an inordinate amount of
time—maybe five times—called raises with them and never hit. It was weird how often I was getting 3’s and
no other pockets.
Finally, in the small blind, I got
Ace-King for the first time. By this
time, my $300 starting stack had dwindled below $200. An aggro who had just busted and bought in
for another $100 raised to $35. He did
like to make big preflop raises. There
had been a number of limpers and when it came to me, all I could think of was
how badly I had played Ace-King two weeks earlier (see here).
What I should have done was shove in an
attempt to get heads up against the aggro (assuming he would have called). But with a bunch of other players behind, I
couldn’t bring myself to do it. I was
fighting the last war, thinking about the disastrous Ace-King hand from
before. So I just called. Everyone else folded behind me anyway.
The flop was low and I checked. I should have bet the $65 or so to put the
guy all-in. It was unlikely that ragged
flop had hit him. But again, I couldn’t
pull the trigger and just checked. He shoved.
I thought about calling, thinking Ace-high might be good, but I gave up. He turned over one card, an Ace. I bet my hand was the best when I
folded. Damn. Gotta get over my Ace-King hang up,
apparently.
I found myself down to around $130. I was getting close to calling it a day, so I
didn’t top off my stack. I got
King-Queen off and opened for $12. One
guy called and then the big blind shoved for his last $23. We both called. The shorty announced he was playing blind. The flop was King-9-X, rainbow. I bet $40 and the other guy called. The turn was a Jack and I put all the rest of
my chips in. The other guy tanked for
quite a bit and then finally folded. So I won the side pot, and then, because
of what happened next, I don’t remember the river card. But I flipped over my hand, and had totally
forgotten that the short stack had announced he was all-in blind.
Instead of flipping over his cards
immediately, he took just one card and turned it over—not knowing what to
expect, just like the rest of us. It was
then that I remembered he hadn’t looked and had no idea what he had. But the first card he flipped over was a 9
and I had to hope his other card didn’t match the board. There was a dramatic
pause and he slowly flipped over his other card. It was another 9. The guy had flopped a set of 9’s and didn’t
know it. He was excited and happy, but
nowhere near the over exuberant jerk the guy I described in this post was. I’d played with him all day and he was a good
guy. His stack had been up and down the
entire time. But a few people did point
out that it was definitely a slow roll, even if it wasn’t intended to be.
In the fact, the guy to my immediate
right thought it was just about the best thing he’d ever seen. He thought that it might be the first time in
the history of poker someone ever slow rolled someone because he played his
hand blind and didn’t know that he had won.
I assured him that this same situation must have happened plenty of
times before. Meanwhile, the guy with
the set of 9’s apologized for slow rolling me, reminding me, as if I didn’t
know, that he had no idea what he had.
I actually laughed and said, “Well,
yeah, you did slow roll me, but since it was an ‘accidental slow roll,’ I’m ok
with it..” Since it wasn’t a huge pot.
that was mostly true. And actually, I
was grateful that the guy didn’t have a bigger stack, I could have lost some
serious money running my top pair into his set.
After we finished laughing about the
accidental slow roll, the guy who folded on the turn said to me, “I would have
won if I had stayed in. I should have
called, I would have hit a straight. I
was open-ended on the turn.” Hmm….in the
commotion about the slow roll, I forgot some of the cards on the board,
including the river card. But I’m trying
to figure out what he would have had for the Jack on the turn (which I am sure
of, cuz I didn’t like it) to have given him an open-ender—and where it would
have made sense for him to call on the flop.
But if he was right, I was certainly happy my shove there got him to
fold. I still had chips to play with.
My stack was around $125-$135 a bit
later when I got pocket deuces. I was in
the cut-off and no one had entered the pot yet.
I’m not limping in one from the button, so I made the min-raise to $6
and got three callers. The flop came
Jack-9-2, two hearts. It checked to me
and I made it $25. The guy on my left, another
aggro, called, then another player raised to about $60 or so. I didn’t bother asking for a count, because
as soon as I saw he was going to raise, I knew I was putting the rest of my
chips in, which I did. The aggro folded
but of course the guy who had raised called, it wasn’t that much more. The turn was another 9 and I no longer was
worrying about the flush. But when I
flipped over my hand, he just mucked his cards and I had won a nice pot.
I won a few more very small pots from
the blinds, both times, oddly enough with trip 10’s when I had 10-7 and 10-3,
respectively. But I didn’t quite get
back to even, losing around $50.
Considering how card dead I was for the day, it wasn’t that bad a
result. And I didn’t even mind the
accidental slow roll.
Rob-
ReplyDeleteOne quick comment about the top set on a K-9-4 board. "Pretty safe flop for my hand—should I slow play it?" Yes you should. You shouldn't be thinking in terms of "3 streets of value" for a non-drawing top set hand. Unless you're coolering someone here (i.e. set of 9's, 4's, or they're calling down QJ, QT, JT, you're never getting a caller. It is very hard, given you have top set, for someone else to have connected. This is the kind of board, where, yes, you'd like 3 streets, but realistically, you need to give your opponent a chance to catch up. You should be hoping for an A on the turn because that will likely connect to your opponents. An A allows you the green light for value on the remaining street.
The point here is this: you are not slow playing your hand when no one else has a hand themselves. You're actually looking to trap. Slow playing requires your opponent to have a made hand or some semblance of a made hand that they're betting for you. On this board, no one has a hand that they're going to bet - you have a better shot of allowing your opponents to turn or river bluff.
Thanks, I certainly considered all of that, but I went the other way.
DeleteOne thing I wondered.....since I was the preflop aggressor, and I'm supposed to bet, does it look too suspicious if I check? Maybe less so since it's a four way pot. I dunno. That was really one time when it was such a dry board there wasn't much chance of anyone calling the flop, for sure.
If things were calm after the slowroll, I am guessing there were no staplers or drink glasses readily available?
ReplyDeleteWell, what happened was I took my paper cup of Diet Dr. Pepper and threw it so hard it landed at the Bike.
DeleteSlow ROLL. ... ROLLs Royce. I see what you did there... B+ boobage.
ReplyDeleteHeh heh. Yep, you solved the puzzle.
DeleteWith respect pokermeister: I read your blog too and think you may benefit from reading the book rob is referring to, "The Course."
ReplyDeleteHere's a short excerpt from the section called Slow Playing: Don't.
LOL...yes, that pretty much is the advice. I wonder if Ed might think this was maybe the exception to the rule?
DeleteYeah, same AC here. I kinda felt bad being so harsh with pokermeister, but you need to get value from flopped sets.
ReplyDeleteIf not on the flop, what turn cards are coming that hit opponent's ranges so they will call a turn bet when folding to a flop bet?
I have no problem with differing opinions... in this case, definitely constructive. However, you want value from your top set, and there are very few cards that can turn / river to make your opponent feel comfortable. On a board like this, there are very few hands that could have connected with the board who will be calling a cbet. If the board were A K x, different story - you have mid set (for all intents, top set, given the action), and many Aces (if not all Aces) are calling your bet. The point I'm making is given the board, K 9 4, it's hard for anyone to have connected... much less continue with their hand. There's only a gutter draw - this is as good of a time as any to let a free card go and hope someone catches top pair or their 2 outter set. Otherwise, you just take down the pot with no value for your top pair - making your hole cards about the same as having 72o in that spot.
DeleteThanks again, guys.
DeleteAnother factor that hurt me here was that I hadn't been at the table long enough to have a read on anyone. For example, if I knew there was a true calling station in the hand, a bet would make more sense....he might call the flop with 88, 77, etc. Even a naked Ace.
And for full disclosure, I'm the same AC that commented on your flopped small boat (which was 100% 3SoV).
ReplyDeleteYeah, I assumed that, Annony. thanks.
Delete